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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Where should I turn?????? | Bible general Archive 2 | javelin | 154527 | ||
Just what exactly is your problem with my post Mark ? You speak as though I have somehow denigrated the word and am "deluded". You say, "It would be hard to argue that the Bible was written in the last 100 years, and yet some of the prophetic fulfillments have occured in the last 100 years." It would be ludicrous to argue this and the prophecies you refer to may be explained away by other things. It's all in the interpretation of it. "The Septuagint is well substantiated as being complete prior to 250 BC, yet it prophesied much that was not fulfilled until later." The Septuagint is the greek translation of the hebrew scriptures - why do you refer to this rather than the original hebrew text ? What is your point ? "If you wish to ignore these things, you will ignore whatever else you choose to. You can call the Bible false, yet if you don't accept that there is a nation called Israel, you are seriously deluded. If you choose to ignore that the Bible said there would be an Israel, you are willfully ingorant. I do not know of any way to debate or convince the wilfully ignorant." If you are speaking this to me then you are way off base, and if so I'll assume that you yourself are being wilfully ignorant. "I am aware of the so-called "higher criticism", but there is a deeper problem that this covers up. Our relationship with God is a matter of the spirit, and of the heart." No kidding. You see here you go again. Besides, our relationship with God starts in the reason. Or are you saying that faith is unreasonable and to know God exists etc. one must make the proverbial "leap in the dark" without logical foundations upon which to believe ? There is no need for leaps in the dark. God and the bible are totally reasonable and understandable. Sure it's "not with the mind a man believes" but you can't believe if you have no brains! You have to understand some basic facts 1st otherwise why does God say, "Come let us reason together" ? If there were no need for logical proofs then why did God give them ? Act 1:3 "...to whom He also presented Himself living after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them through forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God" The whole bible can be viewed as God's testimony to man of His reasonableness and willingness to provide valid reasons for what He does. The book of Romans is largely an excercise in reason and logic. You are arguing with me for no reason, over things that you do not seem to fully understand yourself. You say, "You can argue and debate with a man until the cows come home, but unless he wants to believe, he won't." So ? What is the point ? Everyone knows this. However before you'll get a man to want to believe you have to show him the truth with logical proofs! Preaching would do nothing at all if what you preached were mere unproveable garbage. You can preach as you say til the cows come home and no one will listen unless what you say can be proven. Obviously you don't like what I said or you didn't understand it. The point is that logic is from God my friend, and reason is part of the image of God. Perhaps if you spent a little more time, with a lot more reason, speaking to the rebellious unbeliever they would end up seeing the truth. |
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2 | Where should I turn?????? | Bible general Archive 2 | mark d seyler | 154701 | ||
Javelin, I apologize for any offence you felt from my post. None was intended. I did not understand you to be saying that You did not believe the Bible, I was meaning a general, plural "you", of those who would ingore the plain truths of the scripture. I mentioned the Septuigint because it is more immune to the accusations of having been written or revised at later dates, and yet it says essentially the same things as the Hebrew scriptures. God invites those who already accept His existance, and presence, to come and reason with Him. Just as Paul, on Mars Hill, was not speaking to atheists, convincing them logically to believe in God. He was speaking to theists, who recognised that they didn't know it all. To them, he proclaimed the One Eternal God. Logical proofs have their place, and they are certainly a part of the presentation of the gospel. But many many presentations of the gospel have been derailed by sidetracking into "prove God exists - I don't believe it." And then you can spend the next 20 hours trying to do that, with these purveyors of "higher criticism" shooting down every arguement you offer, whether true or not, because they simply don't want to repent of their sin. They know that they are wrong, but if they allow themselves to accept it, they will have to change and they don't want to. Just as Jesus showed Himself "with many infallible proofs" to His disciples, He will do the same today for all who come to Him. Certainly you cannot be equating "preaching Christ crucified" with "mere unprovable garbage"??????? Neither yours nor my preaching will every save anyone. There is no amount of logic or reason or proof that will bring saving faith to the heart of one man or woman. When the Holy Spirit works in someone's heart, and perhaps the Lord leads one of His children to share a scripture, or a testimony, or to point out the testimony of nature, salvation comes. My point is, logical proof is no match for wilfull rebellion. (I am not speaking of you :-) ) Logic and reason cannot open a closed heart. They can help to lead the one who is already open to spiritual matters, and is inclined towards God, but they will not touch the one who is spiritually closed. Again, I apologise for any offence. Love in Christ, Mark |
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