Bible Question:
Doc (and others) It seems that my days are far too busy to sit and articulate this well, so here is an off the cuff thought on rationally proving that 'a' god or higher power beyond the material world HAS to exist. ------------- Time may be infinite in the future. That makes sense rationally. But time can not exist infinitely in the past. There is no possibility of such an idea, because infinity past would mean that the present time we are in would never arrive. (If you can't get your mind around this idea....or others that follow, let me know and I will try to articulate them more fully.) Second. If you have material you must have time. It is impossible for material to exist without the existence of time. Material is dependant upon time. Third. Time cannot exist apart from a material substance (not as easy to understand why...but true). If there is no material world then time has no meaning nor purpose. It is non-existent by its own definition. (If you don’t grasp #3, then keep going because it may not matter.) Fourth. If there can be no possibility of infinity past and therefore time had to have a beginning, then matter or material too had to have a beginning, a start from true nothingness. Any other thought is illogical. It just can not be any other way. The mathematics would not work otherwise. Therefore; how it all happened would still be up in the air. When it all began would still be up in the air. But some non-material being HAD TO HAVE STATED IT. Some being not bound by the material world and therefore not bound by that confining fourth dimension, had to create the material out of nothing. Thought had to bring the material into being...... This leads to any number of conversations, but there it is, my premise that proves if nothing else, that at least some non-material being (a spirit being) had to start matter from nothing and begin time as we know it. My conclusions are that YHVH is that One True God and that Yeshua (Jesus) is the Messiah that further proves by his resurrection that YHVH is who He says he is. YOUR THOUGHTS? MJH |
Bible Answer: Hi MJH, Your comments, Docs, and others really boil down to the simple idea, put forth in Roman 1, that because we see creation, we know there must be a Creator. Yours and Doc's arguments especially bring out some of the compelling detail to this simple truth. But I think WOS nailed it with "The evidence or proof is not lacking rather it is rejected". There is no proof currently available as the apostles had, in that they could touch the risen Christ, day after day. All we can do right now is offer logical conclusions. But it comes down to this: We walk by faith, and not by sight. I understand that creation requires a creator. Your post shows that due to the nature of the space-time continuum, it had to be started by One Who is outside of it. Doc mentions the display of intelligent design, again, showing the neccessity of a Creator. Furthermore, if we are to assume that this Creator wants to have relationship with us, then we can also conclude that He would start with the first people, and continue until now, and only Judeo-Christianity begins at the beginning, and continues until now, revealing the same God. But there is no proof in the sense that we can "prove" the existance of the Moon. We can measure and map and land on the Moon. We can see it nightly in our sky. Men have returned to Earth with rocks from the Moon, which we can view in our museums. There is no such material evidence of God, only circumstancial evidence. It is very compelling evidence, but still curcumstancial. There is one exception to this, and that is the Bible. In the same way that creation shows the result of actions from outside creation, the Bible shows that it could only be written by One Who can see from outside. And as creation shows intelligent design, the Bible shows in it's design and construction that it was written by an intelligence far beyond man. All this in a Book that we can hold in our hands, and read the same words day by day. So these are the proofs I offer: creation, and the Bible. To me proof positive, but rejected by most. Love in Christ, Mark |