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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Where should I turn?????? | Bible general Archive 2 | mark d seyler | 154502 | ||
Javelin, I believe I understand what you are saying. you wrote: "But an unbeliever may respond, "Those passages are not prophetic at all as they were proven to have been written after the events in question" What would you answer? Exactly!" May I ask, exactly what? If in fact, you were to ask, and answer, as such, there remains a small problem. It would be hard to argue that the Bible was written in the last 100 years, and yet some of the prophetic fulfillments have occured in the last 100 years. The Septuagint is well substantiated as being complete prior to 250 BC, yet it prophesied much that was not fulfilled until later. If you wish to ignore these things, you will ignore whatever else you choose to. You can call the Bible false, yet if you don't accept that there is a nation called Israel, you are seriously deluded. If you choose to ignore that the Bible said there would be an Israel, you are willfully ingorant. I do not know of any way to debate or convince the wilfully ignorant. I am aware of the so-called "higher criticism", but there is a deeper problem that this covers up. Our relationship with God is a matter of the spirit, and of the heart. Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. If the heart will not believe, there is nothing that the mind will accept. 1Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. 1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Satan has disparaged the Word of God from the beginnning, and it's no different now. But it is not with the mind a man believes, its with the heart. And its not logical proofs we believe in, its Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. You can argue and debate with a man until the cows come home, but unless he wants to believe, he won't. I don't spend much time debating with the non-believer, once it becomes clear they just want a reason to not have to repent. Salvation results from preaching mixed with faith. I hope this clarifies more where I am coming from. Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Where should I turn?????? | Bible general Archive 2 | 2fedex | 154538 | ||
Sir, I tend to agree with javelin on this particular discussion. I see absolutely no problem with a person proving in a logical, ordered way that there is a God in an extrabiblical manner. I believe that if I read correctly that is exactly what Paul did when he went to Mars Hill and debated the top pagan following elitists of that thime. There is nothing in this universe that God created that can not point to God if the person that is pointing out these facts is knowledgable enough to present these proofs. e.g. the first chapter of Romans is a proof of the natural revelation of God and His laws(this was a logical extrabiblical argument by Paul). Never be led to believe that knowledge is inherantly evil since all knowledge is from God. Javelin seems to be pointing to this fact and you seem to be taking the approach that since he is not quoting scripture to a lost unbeliever that he is anti-Bible, and I don't think that is the point. Too many people in church have told the "smart" people that they do not need proof, just shut up about the questions and believe. God is not against the questions of man(this is really man seeking God, after all) since He alone has all the answers and even gave the questioning person the mind that does the asking. I pray that you understand that many of us truly love God with all our hearts, MINDS, body and soul. Just because we needed to have a few nagging questions answered on the path to Salvation through Jesus Christ by faith. God bless you for your obvious love of His word. p.s. my greatest intellectual blessing is reading memorizing and expecially applying the truth of God's word to my life every single day thanking God for His revelation of Himself to us. | ||||||
3 | Where should I turn?????? | Bible general Archive 2 | mark d seyler | 154702 | ||
Hi 2Fedex, I required proof myself, before I would commit myself to God. I required the very proof I had all along, but until my heart was open, I could not receive it. Nature gives a revelation of God, but how can you understand it correctly without God's guidance? And what guidance does God give outside of His Word? I will be the first to say that everything in creation proves the existance of the Creator, and each of us must be ready with the correct answer to any question that may be asked of us. A tall order, and I fall short :-) I do not say that Javelin is anti-Bible, I am asserting that the Bible stands as objective proof of God's existance, because only God could have produced it. I believe in proving God's existance, and the first proof I offer is the Bible. In matters of medicine and physical science, it contains much information that was just not knowable at the time it was written. The prophecies are incontrovertible. But even deeper is how it speaks directly to the need inside each one of us, the need to be cleansed, and to come into relationship with God. In Romans one, Paul points out that even with the fact of nature to point out the existance of God, Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. they chose to ignore Him. It was not a question of proof. Yes, nature shows that God exists, but that's not the issue. The issue is that we either want relationship with God or we don't. And if we don't, there is no amount of proof that will change our mind. On Mars Hill, Paul proclaimed the Creator, and then proclaimed the coming judgment. Acts does not record a debate, or proofs, beyond what they already accepted. Paul's listeners were theists, and Paul declared the One True God. Most of them went away, but of few remained. The real issue is spiritual, and it is sin. Faith in Christ is the most intelligent thing any of us can do, and passes every test for logic and truth, and I commend any who are able to present it that way. But I think you said well when you said "this is really man seeking after God". Its important to know the difference between when questions come from true seeking, and when they are a cover-up for rebellion. My experience (which has not been small) with "higher criticism" is that it generally masks prideful, wilfull rebellion against God, and the things of God. I, for instance, have a cousin whom I have debated at length. He is highly intelligent, has an answer for everything, yet at the end of our discussions, when I had successfully refuted every arguement, he said, "well, I'll just take my chances at the judgment." God help him! This was probibly the most extreme example I have seen, but the dymanic is the same in many others. Thank you for your kind words. I truly believe that God gave us our minds to use them for His glory. Paul was brilliant, and God used his abilities to deliver to us amazing passages of scripture that will occupy my mind for the rest of my life, and beyond. There are very reasoned and logical proofs not only for the existance of God, but for God to be the God of the Bible, but they will only be received by the open hearted. Creation requires a Creator, and any non-Biblical arguement will come from this point. If a person does not accept that, all other non-Biblical arguements will fail, as they will assert that it all came from chance. Granting the existance of God, and assuming it is a God Who chooses to reveal Himself to us for the purpose of having relationship with us, He would start His revelation at the beginning, to include the first people, and His message would not change, to include the last people. It is only Judeo-Christianity that fits those requirements. And if you want better than that, you have to go to the Bible. Please don't misunderstand me. "To every man an answer!" I hope that this post has served to show my thinking more clearly. Love in Christ, Mark |
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