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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Follow up Peter first Pope | Bible general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 13455 | ||
Nolan You say you are following the path of Jesus and Him alone. I say that you are following Martin Luthers path of Jesus. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven ML had 95 complaints or disagreements with the Catholic Church which led to him leaving the Church. Which, for all practical purpose was based upon money - indulgences and Church wealth. Was he right? If he was, then the quote that what the Church looses on earth, will also be lost in heaven, applies. The fractionalization of the Church can be viewed as a loss. Luke 11:17 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall If the Pope makes a mistake while leading the Church, then people like ML will divide the Church. Wouldn't ML had done a better service to God and to his fellow Catholics if he had continued to try to guide the Church leaders out of selling indulgences and back onto the correct course of serving God. His victories may not have been numerous, but the number of people affected by his efforts would have been incredible. Instead, ML left the Catholic Church and built his own Church based upon two premises, which continue through today - love God and hate Catholics. How can any true Church, which uses hate or distrust as one of its cornerstones, be properly serving God. By the way, in reading the 95 Thesis, ML clearly did not have a disagreement with the leadership role of the Pope, his issues were related to how the Pope used his powers. Again, when a Pope abuses or misuses his powers or authority, it is a loss on earth and in heaven. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. If a single or a string of Popes misuse their authority, does it mean the existence of the Catholic Church is wrong and the leadership role of the Church is wrong, no it does not. It means a single Pope or a string of Popes misused their authority, but in the 2,000 year history of the Catholic Church - I believe more good leaders existed. Now, was ML wiser for dividing the Church instead of working to heal it? |
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2 | Follow up Peter first Pope | Bible general Archive 1 | Makarios | 13461 | ||
Hello there Brian.. You said: "You say you are following the path of Jesus and Him alone. I say that you are following Martin Luthers path of Jesus." I say: You simply do not know me or where I am coming from at all. You said: "ML had 95 complaints or disagreements with the Catholic Church which led to him leaving the Church. Which, for all practical purpose was based upon money - indulgences and Church wealth. Was he right?" I say: You are mistaken here: Martin Luther's reasons ran a whole lot deeper than that. You said: "If he was, then the quote that what the Church looses on earth, will also be lost in heaven, applies. The fractionalization of the Church can be viewed as a loss." I say: I agree: 'fractionalization of the Church can be viewed as a loss.' But not from the Catholic Church, since I'm not sure whether to call the Catholic church a 'church' or a cult. My spirit does not rest easily with Catholic doctrine or tradition and I could never join a Catholic church. Oh by the way, exactly where is the quote "what the Church looses on earth, will also be lost in heaven" from? I cannot find that in my Bible! I guess that we will just have to take that as another assumption on your part. You said: "Luke 11:17 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall" I say: Jesus also said, "How narrow is the gate and how constricted is the road that leads to life, and few are the people who find it!" (Matthew 7:14) You said: "If the Pope makes a mistake while leading the Church, then people like ML will divide the Church." I say: Count me among the 'dissenters' of the Catholic church!! :) You said: "Wouldn't ML had done a better service to God and to his fellow Catholics if he had continued to try to guide the Church leaders out of selling indulgences and back onto the correct course of serving God. His victories may not have been numerous, but the number of people affected by his efforts would have been incredible." I say: I disagree. He would have continued to be tormented in his soul and eventually burned at the stake by ruthless Catholics had he remained to be a part of them. He made a much greater statement and influence by succeeding from the Catholic church, and we are all to thank him for that! He was one to call "heresy" heresy. And he made a stance for what he believed. You said: "Instead, ML left the Catholic Church and built his own Church based upon two premises, which continue through today - love God and hate Catholics." I say: We don't hate Catholics (at least I don't.) And this was not Luther's intention. I believe that Catholics would find us a lot more 'friendly' if they stood on Scripture alone instead of their tradition/history and the pope. There is nothing wrong in having a central figure being the 'head' of a church organization, but there is something wrong when that person's interpretation is given the same reverence as Scripture itself. You said: "How can any true Church, which uses hate or distrust as one of its cornerstones, be properly serving God." I say: Good question. I haven't been in any Protestant church yet that has hate or distrust as one of its cornerstones or 'historical milemarkers'! You said: "By the way, in reading the 95 Thesis, ML clearly did not have a disagreement with the leadership role of the Pope, his issues were related to how the Pope used his powers." I say: Exactly!! You said: "Again, when a Pope abuses or misuses his powers or authority, it is a loss on earth and in heaven." I say: Are you referring to the pope during WWII and how he endorsed the holocaust and supported Hitler? In this case, yes, I would agree! --Nolan |
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