Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Follow up Peter first Pope | Bible general Archive 1 | Makarios | 12969 | ||
Martin Luther's 95 Thesis to the Catholic Church "DISPUTATION OF DOCTOR MARTIN LUTHER ON THE POWER AND EFFICACY OF INDULGENCES OCTOBER 31, 1517 Out of love for the truth and the desire to bring it to light, the following propositions will be discussed at Wittenberg, under the presidency of the Reverend Father Martin Luther, Master of Arts and of Sacred Theology, and Lecturer in Ordinary on the same at that place. Wherefore he requests that those who are unable to be present and debate orally with us, may do so by letter. In the Name our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. 1. Our Lord and Master Jesus Christ, when He said Poenitentiam agite, willed that the whole life of believers should be repentance. 2. This word cannot be understood to mean sacramental penance, i.e., confession and satisfaction, which is administered by the priests. 3. Yet it means not inward repentance only; nay, there is no inward repentance which does not outwardly work divers mortifications of the flesh. 4. The penalty [of sin], therefore, continues so long as hatred of self continues; for this is the true inward repentance, and continues until our entrance into the kingdom of heaven. 5. The pope does not intend to remit, and cannot remit any penalties other than those which he has imposed either by his own authority or by that of the Canons. 6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring that it has been remitted by God and by assenting to God's remission; though, to be sure, he may grant remission in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in such cases were despised, the guilt would remain entirely unforgiven. 7. God remits guilt to no one whom He does not, at the same time, humble in all things and bring into subjection to His vicar, the priest. 8. The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to them, nothing should be imposed on the dying. 9. Therefore the Holy Spirit in the pope is kind to us, because in his decrees he always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity. 10. Ignorant and wicked are the doings of those priests who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penances for purgatory. 11. This changing of the canonical penalty to the penalty of purgatory is quite evidently one of the tares that were sown while the bishops slept. 12. In former times the canonical penalties were imposed not after, but before absolution, as tests of true contrition. 13. The dying are freed by death from all penalties; they are already dead to canonical rules, and have a right to be released from them. 14. The imperfect health [of soul], that is to say, the imperfect love, of the dying brings with it, of necessity, great fear; and the smaller the love, the greater is the fear. 15. This fear and horror is sufficient of itself alone (to say nothing of other things) to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair. 16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ as do despair, almost-despair, and the assurance of safety. 17. With souls in purgatory it seems necessary that horror should grow less and love increase. 18. It seems unproved, either by reason or Scripture, that they are outside the state of merit, that is to say, of increasing love. 19. Again, it seems unproved that they, or at least that all of them, are certain or assured of their own blessedness, though we may be quite certain of it. 20. Therefore by "full remission of all penalties" the pope means not actually "of all," but only of those imposed by himself. 21. Therefore those preachers of indulgences are in error, who say that by the pope's indulgences a man is freed from every penalty, and saved; 22. Whereas he remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to the canons, they would have had to pay in this life. 23. If it is at all possible to grant to any one the remission of all penalties whatsoever, it is certain that this remission can be granted only to the most perfect, that is, to the very fewest. 24. It must needs be, therefore, that the greater part of the people are deceived by that indiscriminate and highsounding promise of release from penalty. 25. The power which the pope has, in a general way, over purgatory, is just like the power which any bishop or curate has, in a special way, within his own diocese or parish. 26. The pope does well when he grants remission to souls [in purgatory], not by the power of the keys (which he does not possess), but by way of intercession. 27. They preach man who say that so soon as the penny jingles into the money-box, the soul flies out [of purgatory]." |
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2 | Follow up Peter first Pope | Bible general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 13436 | ||
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." You are now following the word of Martin Luther, why do you feel he is the right man to follow |
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3 | Follow up Peter first Pope | Bible general Archive 1 | Makarios | 13439 | ||
Dear Brian, I follow Jesus Christ and Him alone. The 95 Thesis of Martin Luther directly coincide and show "the root issues" of my differences with the Catholic Church. Martin Luther was correct in his 'challenging' of the tradition of the Catholics and this is why I have subscribed so much to his writings as to post them to a Study Bible Forum such as this one.. Why, may I ask, did you post this? "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." This sentence obviously has nothing to do with what we are talking about. If you think that this sentence is in someway referring to the papacy, then you are in grevious error, my Catholic friend. Why do you feel that the pope is the right man to follow? If this is a "reply" to the 95 Thesis of Martin Luther, then your reply is a very weak one indeed!! --Nolan |
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4 | Follow up Peter first Pope | Bible general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 13455 | ||
Nolan You say you are following the path of Jesus and Him alone. I say that you are following Martin Luthers path of Jesus. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven ML had 95 complaints or disagreements with the Catholic Church which led to him leaving the Church. Which, for all practical purpose was based upon money - indulgences and Church wealth. Was he right? If he was, then the quote that what the Church looses on earth, will also be lost in heaven, applies. The fractionalization of the Church can be viewed as a loss. Luke 11:17 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall If the Pope makes a mistake while leading the Church, then people like ML will divide the Church. Wouldn't ML had done a better service to God and to his fellow Catholics if he had continued to try to guide the Church leaders out of selling indulgences and back onto the correct course of serving God. His victories may not have been numerous, but the number of people affected by his efforts would have been incredible. Instead, ML left the Catholic Church and built his own Church based upon two premises, which continue through today - love God and hate Catholics. How can any true Church, which uses hate or distrust as one of its cornerstones, be properly serving God. By the way, in reading the 95 Thesis, ML clearly did not have a disagreement with the leadership role of the Pope, his issues were related to how the Pope used his powers. Again, when a Pope abuses or misuses his powers or authority, it is a loss on earth and in heaven. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. If a single or a string of Popes misuse their authority, does it mean the existence of the Catholic Church is wrong and the leadership role of the Church is wrong, no it does not. It means a single Pope or a string of Popes misused their authority, but in the 2,000 year history of the Catholic Church - I believe more good leaders existed. Now, was ML wiser for dividing the Church instead of working to heal it? |
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5 | Follow up Peter first Pope | Bible general Archive 1 | Makarios | 13461 | ||
Hello there Brian.. You said: "You say you are following the path of Jesus and Him alone. I say that you are following Martin Luthers path of Jesus." I say: You simply do not know me or where I am coming from at all. You said: "ML had 95 complaints or disagreements with the Catholic Church which led to him leaving the Church. Which, for all practical purpose was based upon money - indulgences and Church wealth. Was he right?" I say: You are mistaken here: Martin Luther's reasons ran a whole lot deeper than that. You said: "If he was, then the quote that what the Church looses on earth, will also be lost in heaven, applies. The fractionalization of the Church can be viewed as a loss." I say: I agree: 'fractionalization of the Church can be viewed as a loss.' But not from the Catholic Church, since I'm not sure whether to call the Catholic church a 'church' or a cult. My spirit does not rest easily with Catholic doctrine or tradition and I could never join a Catholic church. Oh by the way, exactly where is the quote "what the Church looses on earth, will also be lost in heaven" from? I cannot find that in my Bible! I guess that we will just have to take that as another assumption on your part. You said: "Luke 11:17 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall" I say: Jesus also said, "How narrow is the gate and how constricted is the road that leads to life, and few are the people who find it!" (Matthew 7:14) You said: "If the Pope makes a mistake while leading the Church, then people like ML will divide the Church." I say: Count me among the 'dissenters' of the Catholic church!! :) You said: "Wouldn't ML had done a better service to God and to his fellow Catholics if he had continued to try to guide the Church leaders out of selling indulgences and back onto the correct course of serving God. His victories may not have been numerous, but the number of people affected by his efforts would have been incredible." I say: I disagree. He would have continued to be tormented in his soul and eventually burned at the stake by ruthless Catholics had he remained to be a part of them. He made a much greater statement and influence by succeeding from the Catholic church, and we are all to thank him for that! He was one to call "heresy" heresy. And he made a stance for what he believed. You said: "Instead, ML left the Catholic Church and built his own Church based upon two premises, which continue through today - love God and hate Catholics." I say: We don't hate Catholics (at least I don't.) And this was not Luther's intention. I believe that Catholics would find us a lot more 'friendly' if they stood on Scripture alone instead of their tradition/history and the pope. There is nothing wrong in having a central figure being the 'head' of a church organization, but there is something wrong when that person's interpretation is given the same reverence as Scripture itself. You said: "How can any true Church, which uses hate or distrust as one of its cornerstones, be properly serving God." I say: Good question. I haven't been in any Protestant church yet that has hate or distrust as one of its cornerstones or 'historical milemarkers'! You said: "By the way, in reading the 95 Thesis, ML clearly did not have a disagreement with the leadership role of the Pope, his issues were related to how the Pope used his powers." I say: Exactly!! You said: "Again, when a Pope abuses or misuses his powers or authority, it is a loss on earth and in heaven." I say: Are you referring to the pope during WWII and how he endorsed the holocaust and supported Hitler? In this case, yes, I would agree! --Nolan |
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