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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Radioman2 | 87858 | ||
'JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND PROVERBS 8:22 'IS JESUS WISDOM? 'According to Jehovah's Witnesses Jesus is wisdom in Proverbs 8:22. Is Proverbs 8:22 speaking about Jesus? Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is being spoken of in Proverbs 8:22 and was created by God before all other things were created. What is going to be shown here is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe, and teach others concerning Proverbs 8:22, and look at the context of Proverbs 8:22 to see what exactly this passage is saying. 'In the Jehovah's Witnesses brochure called "Should You Believe In The Trinity page 14" they say the following: "Notice how closely those references to the origin of Jesus correlate with expressions uttered by the figurative "Wisdom" in the Bible book of Proverbs: "Yahweh created me, first-fruits of his fashioning, before the oldest of his works. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I came to birth; before he had made the earth, the countryside, and the first elements of the world." (Proverbs 8:12, 22, 25, 26, NJB) While the term "Wisdom" is used to personify the one whom God created, most scholars agree that it is actually a figure of speech for Jesus as a spirit creature prior to his human existence." (Should You Believe In The Trinity page 14) Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is being spoken of in Proverbs 8:22 and that it teaches Wisdom (Jesus) was created. One point that needs to made right at the start. There is no reference to Jesus in Proverbs 8:22 at all. This passage is speaking of Wisdom, and for those who teach this is Jesus the evidence is not there. Another point is that the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was God's first creation and therefore believe this to be speaking of Jesus and like to use different Bible Versions that would indicate that this Wisdom was created. There are Bible Versions that have Proverbs 8:22 with the words 'created, producted or made', however there are many Bible Versions that do not. 'BIBLE VERSIONS OF PROVERBS 8:22 THAT SUPPORT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES '"Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago." (New World Translation/ Official Jehovah's Witnesses Bible) '"The Lord created me first of all, the first of his works, long ago." (Todays English Bible) '"The Lord made me as the start of his way, the first of his works in the past." (The Bible In Basic English) 'BIBLE VERSIONS OF PROVERBS 8:22 THAT DO NOT SUPPORT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES '"The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old." (New American Standard Bible) '"Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old." (American Standard Version) '"Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." (Darby Bible) '"Jehovah possessed me--the beginning of His way, Before His works since then." (Youngs Literal Translation) '"The LORD already possessed me long ago, when his way began, before any of his works." (Gods Word Bible) '"Yahweh possessed me in the beginning of his work, Before his deeds of old." (World English Bible) '"The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, before His works of old." (Third Millennium Bible) 'Showing the comparison of different Bible Versions shows this is not an easy solution to Proverbs 8:22 and with it reading 'possessed' or 'create, made, produced'. What is the Hebrew word and what does it mean? The Hebrew word here is 'QANAH' and it means: "to own, to attain, buy-er, create possess(-or), purchase, c, recover, redeem, provoke to jealously." The Hebrew word 'qanah' has many different definitions and can be used differently depending on the context. The question is how should 'qanah' be used in Proverbs 8:22? In order to rightly interpret the Scriptures the context is the key to understanding what the word means or implies. If someone said they love cats would you think they had a personal relationship with them as human beings do with other human beings? The word love can be used in many different ways and it is understood by the context of how it is used. The standard for rightly interpreting the Scriptures is reading carefully and looking at what is being said, who is sayiing it, and examining it in light of what the Scriptures teach.' ____________________ To read more, including 'EXAMINING PROVERBS 8 IN CONTEXT', go to: (http://www.apologeticsforchristians.homestead.com/JehovahsWitnessesProverbs8.html) |
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2 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | TheCurtMan | 87888 | ||
Hey RM2, I really don't have the time at present to read your entire posting, but let's get real about Proverbs 8:22. It can not be applied in the way that Witnesses say it is for a variety of reasons. My personal favorite is this, the first nine chps. of Proverbs is referring to Wisdom. If 8:22 is in reference to Christ, then all nine chps. are in reference to Christ as well. In short order, according to these nine chps. Christ is a woman; yelling in the streets; Christ live in a house with seven pillars, and Christ is living with someone named Purdence. IT JUST DON'T ADD UP!! I will read your post in it's entirety. The CurtMan |
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3 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Radioman2 | 87905 | ||
Hey, CurtMan, ["Let's get real about Proverbs 8:22." Amen! This posting is about as real as it gets. :-) This Note and my previous one DISAGREE with JWs on their interpretation of Proverbs 8.] 'IS JESUS WISDOM? 'One point that needs to made right at the start. There is no reference to Jesus in Proverbs 8:22 at all. This passage is speaking of Wisdom, and for those who teach this is Jesus the evidence is not there. (...) 'EXAMINING PROVERBS 8 IN CONTEXT' '...[See Proverbs 8:1-11 in ASV.] Looking at the beginning of the Chapter Wisdom is said to be crying out to those who will seek her. Wisdom is said to be a she speaking forth instruction, and those who receive her find understanding, and better than gold, silver, and rubies, for nothing compares to getting wisdom. Wisdom here is not Jesus, but as King Solomon is putting it, get wisdom from God, understanding, knowledge, and live by them for they are better than all desired things. (...) '[See Proverbs 8:12-21 ASV.] Wisdom is said to be understanding, knowledge, and Counsel of which kings, princes, and nobles decree justice. Wisdom is knowing what is right and wrong, and having understanding on how to apply things to life. Wisdom here is not a person at all of which Jehovah's Witnesses teach. Wisdom is that which people seek for walking in the way of righteousness, and receiving understanding, and nothing compares to having true wisdom in life. (...) '[See Proverbs 8:22-29 ASV.] Solomon continues stating wisdom was eternally with Jehovah God from everlasting. Jehovah God had wisdom from the beginning of His way, that is from everlasting wisdom was with Jehovah God. There was never a time when Jehovah God did not have wisdom. Jehovah God used wisdom in creating all things, and wisdom was before all things, for wisdom is knowledge, understanding, and Jehovah had this before the creation of the world, and all things. Wisdom here is not Jesus at all, but in fact speaking about the knowledge and understanding of Jehovah God, and that wisdom was there from the beginning. 'It is clear that the word 'qanah' means "possessed" in context of what King Solomon wrote in Proverbs 8. Jehovah God is Eternal, from everlasting, and Wisdom is said to be from everlasting, in the beginning of Jehovah's way. If Wisdom is Eternal, and Jehovah is Eternal, than Wisdom can not be created or made, for that would mean that Jehovah at one time did not have wisdom, and somehow created wisdom when He did not have any. That does not go with what the Bible teaches or with what the context of Proverbs 8 is teaching. Another thing is that Wisdom is not Jesus here because according to the Jehovah's Witnesses Jesus is a created angel known as Michael the archangel, and this wisdom is said to be with Jehovah from the beginning of His way, from everlasting. 'Many Jehovah's Witnesses point to Commentaries in support of their views in reference to Proverbs 8:22. Commentaries are good to use, but Commentaries are not 100 percent accurate. In reference to Christian Commentaries, Jehovah's Witnesses like to point out that some have stated Proverbs 8:22 is speaking about Jesus; however in those Commentaries they in no way state that Jesus was created by the Father, and in those Christian Commentaries throughout the Scriptures they clearly state that Jesus is God come in the flesh, the Second person of the Trinity. Jehovah's Witnesses work very hard to try to prove their views, but the bottom line is what is the context of Proverbs 8. What has been shared is that Proverbs 8 is not speaking of Jesus, but in fact about 'wisdom' in reference to getting understanding, knowledge, and direction. 'Another important point that needs to be addressed concerning what Jehovah's Witnesses teach on this subject. Looking at the book of Proverbs King Solomon wrote many things on Wisdom, and if Wisdom in Proverbs 8:22 is Jesus then what about the other references King Solomon wrote about? What is the purpose of the proverbs King Solomon wrote? [See Proverbs 1:1-6; 2:1-9; 4:1-9; 7:1-4 ASV] (...) '[See Proverbs 7:1-4 ASV] According to King Solomon, the one who wrote Proverbs, Wisdom is not Jesus at all. Wisdom is getting understanding in life, knowledge, and through wisdom we learn how to live lives according to righteousness, and to turn from evil. Wisdom is used in Hebrew poetry as a figure of speech as King Solomon spoke of wisdom many times as being a her, she, sister, kinswoman, worth more than gold and silver, and worth more than earthly goods. King Solomon did not write that Wisdom was a real person, but was to be sought out by those who seek the Lord and want true understanding and knowledge that comes from Jehovah God.' ____________________ This article has been edited solely due to space limitations. To read more go to: (http://www.apologeticsforchristians.homestead.com/JehovahsWitnessesProverbs8.html) |
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4 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87911 | ||
Radioman, A little study of this says otherwise. See Tertullian’s “Against Praxeas.” Therein, in Chapter 7, he says: “The Son likewise acknowledges the Father, speaking in his own person, under the name of Wisdom: ‘The LORD formed me as the beginning of his ways.’” See also comments on Proverbs 8:22 by Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Theophilus of Antioch, Clement of Alexandria, Cyprian (The Treatises of), Origen’s “De Principiis,” Dionysius, and Lactantius. Truthfinder |
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