Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | Pastor Glenn | 61718 | ||
Hank and the rest of this forum, I looked up this old thread dealing with God's sovereignty because someone recently said that "God is in control of every single atom." Then they used that reasoning to say that it follows that God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world, so free will is an illusion. They then further implied that He purposely made some to dishonor. If God purposely made some to dishonor then why would he say this: Ezek 33: 7"So you, son of man: I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore you shall hear a word from My mouth and warn them for Me. 8When I say to the wicked, "O wicked man, you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, THAT WICKED MAN SHALL DIE IN HIS INIQUITY; BUT HIS BLOOD I WILL REQUIRE AT YOUR HAND. 9Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. 10"Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: "Thus you say, "If our transgressions and our sins lie upon us, and we pine away in them, how can we then live?"' 11Say to them: "As I live,' says the Lord GOD, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?' If God is in control of every atom then why would He say ”… THAT WICKED MAN SHALL DIE IN HIS INIQUITY; BUT HIS BLOOD I WILL REQUIRE AT YOUR HAND…”? This reasoning would then lead right back to this thread: "Is God responsible for evil?". I have had past experience in a different forum, of atheists, where this exact same thread of "Is God responsible for evil?" was debated. In that forum some of the participants would sign up as a different person and start threads from the opposing view point. After a while, they would pull off their sheep’s clothing and revert back to their original view point to frustrate the Christians. I don't know who may be wolfs in disguise. I am not accusing others who have posted here. You can't really know if I am not one either. But we should be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves." We are warned to "beware of false prophets in sheep’s clothing". "Be not weary in well doing. In due season we will reap if we faint not." God bless, Pastor Glenn |
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2 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 61767 | ||
Part One- -I hope this will help. 1. Inability does not rule out responsibility The Scripture asserts unmistakably man's total inability to transform his character by his own unassisted wit and energy, so making himself Christlike. This is beyond his capacity. "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil" (Jeremiah 13:23). "No man can come unto me except the Father who sent me draw him," says the Lord Christ (John 6:44). The act of true and simple faith in the Lord is impossible apart from the drawing and gracious gift of the Father. Jesus again tells us that except a man be born again he cannot see or enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:3,5). Yet, there are commands with which God confronts every single person. For example, "You must be born again" (John 3:7); "God commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30); and "Love the Lord your God with all your heart." Are they sincere commands? Absolutely. All creatures are responsible to their Creator. Do not such commands presuppose a modicum of ability? No. Not since the fall of our father Adam. God deals with people according to the standards of responsibility and obligation, not according to the measure of ability. John Murray says, "If obligation presupposes ability then we shall have to go the whole way and predicate the total ability of man." Why are the commands given? They are a revelation of the will of almighty God, and they also make men realize their helplessness. One result of the inability of man being preached is that people are forced to stop trusting in themselves. This shuts them up to rely upon God's grace. It is not the conviction of helplessness that keeps men away from Christ; it is the opposite: "I cannot come to him, but I must come to him. What fearful inability! What high responsibility! Who shall deliver me from this dilemma? I thank God for Jesus Christ the enabling Saviour." 2. Certainty does not rule out necessity All that God has determined to do will most certainly be achieved: "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please" (Isaiah 46:10). The plan of God is unchangeable, because God is faithful and true (Job 23:13-14). It is unconditional, that is, its execution does not depend on any action of man but even renders such action certain (Acts 2:23; Ephesians 2:8). Moreover, it is all-inclusive, embracing the good and the wicked actions of men (Ephesians 2:10; Acts 2:23), contingent events (Genesis 50:20), the duration of a man's life (Job 14:5) and the place where a man will live (Acts 17:26). It ensures the certain salvation of a vast number of favoured sinners. Yet the certainty of God's secret will being accomplished does not rule out the necessity of men doing all that God has commanded in the Bible. When Paul was told that the Lord had many people in Corinth he did not sit on a chair on his veranda waiting for Corinthians to drop decision cards in his lap. For eighteen months he taught the Word of God to all in Corinth who would hear him (Acts 18:11). He did it beseeching them to believe, stretching forth his hands to them, entreating them to repent. He wept for them. He prayed for them all, and he asked others to pray. He visited them privately, debated with his opponents publicly, and apologized if he offended them by harsh words. He sought to live a Christlike life before them so that in nothing would his message be maligned through sin. He knew God's chosen people in Corinth would most certainly confess Christ, but that knowledge in no way ruled out the necessity of his living a God-fearing and fervently evangelistic life. |
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3 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | Pastor Glenn | 61809 | ||
John Reformed, You quoted, “1. INABILITY DOES NOT RULE OUT RESPONSIBILITY ……"No man can come unto me except the Father who sent me draw him," says the Lord Christ (John 6:44).” But Jesus also said, John 12: 32And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." It is not God’s plan or will that any should perish. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. You also quoted, “2. CERTAINTY DOES NOT RULE OUT NECESSITY …THE PLAN OF GOD IS UNCHANGEABLE, because God is faithful and true (Job 23:13-14). IT IS UNCONDITIONAL, that is, its execution does not depend on any action of man but even renders such action certain (Acts 2:23; Ephesians 2:8). Moreover, it is all-inclusive, embracing the good and the wicked actions of men (Ephesians 2:10; Acts 2:23), …. It ensures the certain salvation of a vast number of favoured sinners.” Look at the main scripture: Acts 2:22"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know-- 23Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have TAKEN[3] BY LAWLESS HANDS, have crucified, and put to death; The “taken[3] by lawless hands” was indeed certain, WHO’S hands that Satan would use was UNCERTAIN, in that no one person had been singled out in prophecy to carry it out. Of course God foreknew WHO because He knows the future, as well as, the heart of everyone from afar. Look at the other main scripture: Eph 2:8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. God’s foreknowledge means that some are indeed predestinated, in that God already KNOWS their destination. God knows our hearts before we are born with freewill. Deuteronomy 8:2 And you shall remember that the LORD your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not. Deuteronomy 26:16 "This day the LORD your God commands you to observe these statutes and judgments; therefore you shall be careful to observe them with all your heart and with all your soul. It was God’s plan for them to obey “…with all your heart and with all your soul.”, but they always sinned again. Jer 17:9"The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? 10I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. God’s angels are witnesses from the beginning until the end, but they are not going to ask “Is God responsible for evil?”. God has already recorded what they will say: Rev 16:5And I heard the angel of the waters saying: "You are righteous, O Lord,[2] The One who is and who was and who is to be,[3] Because You have judged these things. 6For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, And You have given them blood to drink. For[4] it is their just due." 7And I heard another from[5] the altar saying, "Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments." However, There will be men who will blame God for their condition in blasphemy: Rev 16:9And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory. Rev 16:11They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds. Rev 16:21And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great. The main point is that God Gives repeated opportunity for all men to be saved. He also warns us to watch our heart, to obey Him, and to walk in the spirit as opposed to the flesh. He never told us to teach predestination, even though I believe in it to the extent of God’s foreknowledge. However, He did tell us to preach “REPENTANCE FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS”: Luke 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. God bless, Pastor Glenn |
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4 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 61815 | ||
Dear Pastor Glenn, I appreciate your response. You said: ……"No man can come unto me except the Father who sent me draw him," says the Lord Christ (John 6:44). ....But Jesus also said, John 12: 32And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." From the way you put it it sounds like they contradict each other. I know you don't believe that they do! But in stating them in the way you have thats what it sounds like. I heard a precher on the radio today that said that every time he gave a sermon it was actually 3 sermons. 1. The semon he intended to give. 2. the sermon he actually gave and 3. the sermon the congregation heard. I got a laugh out of that because I feel that way about my posts sometimes. Perhaps if you just tell me what you believe each verse means and how they compliment each other? You also gave me alot of other verses to deal with but if you don't mind, I would prefer to discuss them over a period of time. But let's start with the first two and go on from there. Fair enough? Thanks Pastor, John |
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5 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | Pastor Glenn | 61827 | ||
John Reformed, Quoting complimentary scriptures is the way I was always taught to study scripture in Sunday School. We learned that Satan knows scripture better than we do. But we need to respond like Jesus did by saying "It is written..." when He was tempted as the devil used scriptures also by saying "It is written..." Mat 4:1-11. But I am not saying that you are the devil. Remember that Satan used God's word and twisted it to deceive Eve. He tries to use scripture to deceive us in our minds also. Using related scriptures gives us a much better picture of what God is saying. You quoted, “1. INABILITY DOES NOT RULE OUT RESPONSIBILITY ……"No man can come unto me except the Father who sent me draw him," says the Lord Christ (John 6:44).” But Jesus also said, John 12: 32And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." It is not God’s plan or will that any should perish. John 6:44 means that God has to touch a person's heart to draw them to Jesus. However, that does not mean that they must respond to God's drawing. Also they may be drawn to Jesus, but later they turn away. (See the parable of the sower Mat 13:18-23) John 12:32 means that Jesus must be lifted up on the cross to be crucified. It means a lot more also. If the full story is told boldly by all Christians in a truly uplifting manner in the power of the Holy Ghost, then He will draw ALL men unto him! Just as Moses lifted up the serpent, so must we lift up Jesus: John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. God’s foreknowledge means that some are indeed predestinated, in that God already KNOWS their destination. God knows our hearts before we are born with freewill. It was God’s plan for them to obey “…with all your heart and with all your soul.”, but they always sinned again. The main point is that God Gives repeated opportunity for all men to be saved. He also warns us to watch our heart, to obey Him, and to walk in the spirit as opposed to the flesh. He never told us to teach predestination, even though I believe in it to the extent of God’s foreknowledge. However, He did tell us to preach “REPENTANCE FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS”: Luke 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. God bless, Pastor Glenn |
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6 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | Scripture | 61834 | ||
Pastor Glen nice to post in response to your thoughts: You use "John 12: 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." to support you thought that God draws ALL people to Him. But, indeed all do not come. The term "ALL" has several different meanings in Scripture, which being a pastor you know. ALL over 500 times in Scripture means all types or all kinds. This is its usage in the verse you quote. THe parable of the sower does nothing to support you as matter a fact it is against what you are saying. It speaks of 3 different heart that will not accept the Word of God and only one that will. The one that will is the one given by God...it is good soil, which can only come from God. If it comes from man what is the need of grace for salvation? Indeed Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, but I read elsewhere on this forum, that many died prior to it being lifted up and it was only lifted for Israel (the elect) and NOT for the Gentiles that were in the surrounding regions, which one must assume they had sin, for all have sinned. So again the serpent is only for the elect and only for those enabled to look (believe--John 3:16). I agree we must send laborers into the Field because none know who the elect are. 2 Peter 2:9 uses an interesting word "us-ward". the verse is very specific...it is to Christians. Look at the surrounding verses and you will find the same. Look at what Peter is speaking about in the whole of the chapter, I think you will agree. God's foreknowledge is an intimate relationship He has with His elect. This is clear from the Greek I have seen, and I am sure as a pastor you have seen it as well. Plus, the term foreknowledge is linked with some other terms Rom 8 says "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." The ones He foreknew are the ones He predestined to be conformed to the image of His sons, and not any other. This could not mean He foreknew their decision for that would make salvation a work of one's will (Eph 2:8-9, John 1:13) but it means His intimate relationship He had with those He predestined. For those "he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." See if He called ALL and He justified ALL the way you state the term is being used then ALL would have to be saved. Thus, though God desire His Word to be preached to all only those He gives a heart to receive (heart for the sower), only those He gives eyes to see (the serpent) and only those He predestined, called, justifed, and evnetually glorify will be the ones and are the only ones that will ever truly hear the proclaimed gospel for the natural mind profiteth nothing, but that which is spiritual--ye must be born again.... |
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7 | JRdoc? | Bible general Archive 1 | Pastor Glenn | 61894 | ||
JRdoc? | ||||||
8 | JRdoc? | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 61934 | ||
Pastor Glenn John the Reformer said JRDOC is no longer on the forum in one of his appends. EdB |
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