Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why would someone get rebaptised? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 42567 | ||
Hello Joe, I can see there is no need in debating this with you because you have been blinded by the Calvinist viewpoint. But let me say that as adults we are all sinners. Rom. 3:23 The first sin that was ever committed was by Adam and Eve. Eve first then Adam was decieved by satan. But we DO NOT inherit sin in this case "Original sin" from the sin that Adam committed. This is not biblical and the verse that you point out is from a prayer that David offered up to God for Him to forgive David his sins. But because of sin there is death and that is all. Look at this verse, Romans 5 Death in Adam, Life in Christ (1) 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and DEATH THROUGH SIN, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- Now read this next part carefully, 13(For UNTIL THE LAW sin was in the world, but SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHERE THERE IS NO LAW. Therefore the need for the Ten Commandments. So the people would know and be able to read and understand for themselves. We are not judged by what Adam and Eve did! You cannot show me a verse that says this. But you might find it interesting that the bible does say that each man is accountable for himself, Ezekiel 18 20 "The person who (1) sins will die. The (2) son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the (3) righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. So by this you can see that you view of "original sin" is in direct contridiction of what the bible teaches. For sin is when we transgress the law of God and not just by being born. 1 John 3 4 Whosoever COMMITTETH sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. If on the other hand had it been like you say then David could not have made this statment about his son that died. 2 Samuel 12 22And he said, "While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, "Who can tell whether the LORD[1] will be gracious to me, that the child may live?' 23But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I SHALL GO TO HIM, BUT HE SHALL NOT RETURN TO ME." David was stating the fact that his son was in the arms of the Heavenly Father. These scriptures that I have shown would also show that "total depravity" is also not biblical. Anybody that can look into the eyes of their newborn baby and believe that it is "defiled" ,"depraved", covered in sin and utterly without hope unless they are sprinkled with a few drops of water has got some serious issues and needs to seek guidence!! Raven!! |
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2 | Why would someone get rebaptised? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 42578 | ||
"I can see there is no need in debating this with you because you have been blinded by the Calvinist viewpoint." Well, we can't all be like you, enlightened with the "truth" of Pharisaical works-righteousness, RAVEN. By the by, what do you make of our resident Arminian's approval of my post. Certainly you don't accuse Tim of being under the influence of "the evil John Calvin." Now away from the ad hominem attacks and back to the Scripture passage in question I was wondering why you stopped at verse 13. You also avoided any discussion of the verses I cited from the same passage. You can't just pick the verses you like and say "case closed." You wrote: "We are not judged by what Adam and Eve did! You cannot show me a verse that says this." Paul wrote: "The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification." --Romans 5:16 and "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men." --Romans 5:18 ONE transgression (Adam's) results in condemnation/judgment for ALL. There's your verses. But Paul goes on: "For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous." --Romans 5:19 We were made sinners, not because we sinned, but because Adam sinned. Can't be much clearer than that. We may be held accountable for only our sins, but the human race became sinful by nature because of Adam. Look at the process: Adam sinned, and therefore we were MADE sinners. Pretty cut-and-dried to me. But let's back up to the previous verse you cited: "for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law." --Romans 5:13 One thing we can conclude from this verse is that sin did not originate with the Law. The verse itself says that sin existed before the Law. That is why God could justly destroy the world and everyone in it (with the exception of Noah's family). Obviously judgment existed before the Law of Moses. We see it in Genesis 6. Looking at the next verse reveals a lot as well: "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come." --Romans 5:14 People had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, and yet death reigned. If we do not suffer the consequences of Adam's sin, why are all people detined to die? It even goes so far as to say that "death reigned" during the period of time between Adam and the Law of Moses. Notice again in this verse that it doesn't say that man didn't sin. It says that they didn't sin in the likeness of Adam. Since the passage refers to Adam violating a direct, verbal command from God, and the Law being a direct set of moral commandments, I would think that "sinning in the likeness of Adam" probably refers to sinning against God's special revelation verbally, through prophets, and through Scripture. Those who sinned not in the likeness of Adam only sinned against God's general revelation in nature (Romans 1:18-20) or against the moral sense imbedded iby God in our psyche (Romans 2:11-16). Your reference to David's infant son is one of the passages used to support the "age of accountability" argument, which even many of us "blinded Calvinists" accept. Lastly, you wrote: 'Anybody that can look into the eyes of their newborn baby and believe that it is "defiled" ,"depraved", covered in sin and utterly without hope unless they are sprinkled with a few drops of water has got some serious issues and needs to seek guidence!!' Well, since you are attacking a point of view I have not given, I will only say that while your sentiment is really "warm and fuzzy," the cute, little baby you hold in your arms is God's enemy by nature (Ephesians 2:3) and cannot submit to God's law or please Him (Romans 8:7; Hebrews 12:2). Calvinists do not believe in baptismal regeneration. That error is part of your theology. --Joe! |
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3 | Why would someone get rebaptised? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 42593 | ||
Greetings Joe! Oh no! Now your going to get me in on this one! :-) All joking aside, I fully agree with your points my brother. Romans 5:12 makes it clear that are sin and Adams sin are one and the same. Some argue that the last clause of Rom. 5:12 should be translated "in him all sinned". If this is true, then clearly Adam's sin in our sin as well. However, even in the last clause is translated as "because all sinned", it still makes the same point. Notice that the clause does not say that 'all sin - present tense', but that 'all sinned - aorist tense (past action). Therefore, a) We all die because we all sinned with Adam - Rom. 5:12. b) We all die because of Adam's sin - Rom. 5:15. c) Judgement and condemnation come upon us all because of Adam's sin - Rom. 5:16. d) Condemnation comes upon all men because of Adam's sin - Rom. 5:18. e) We were made sinners because of Adam's sin - Rom. 5:19. There simply isn't any other way to view the Biblical data other than sin and death come upon us all in Adam. Keep up the excellent posts my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Why would someone get rebaptised? | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 42604 | ||
Hi Tim, I see this doctrine of the old sin nature much the same way that you do. I once heard it explained that the old sin nature (OSN) is passed down to us through the genetic gene structure and the OSN is in every cell of our body. This is all extra biblical but it sure makes a lot of sense to me. This OSN is evident in all of us even believers after we receive our new nature, which is patterned after Christ; we are always being controlled by one or the other natures at all times. It is an absolute, which means all of one or the other, not a little of both, nothing less then 100 percent, is always controlling us at every moment. When God is in total control of us, we are said to be filled with the Spirit. At the point of faith in Jesus Christ, or salvation, God says that he will never leave us or forsake us, but that is not to say that he is in full control of our lives all of the time. When the OSN takes over, a result of giving into sin, we are said to be grieving or quenching the Spirit. This is the reason for Paul's war in the flesh in Romans Chapter 7 starting at verse 15 on. The word for flesh or (sarx) in the Koine Greek, could at times be used as a synonym for the old sin nature. The way to get out from under the control of the OSN is to use I John 1:9 ; that puts God back in control again until we give in to our OSN. Paul got so frustrated with this that he made the statement in last part of Romans 7:24,25 Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. I imagine this is probably old stuff to you! CDBJ |
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5 | Why would someone get rebaptised? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 42619 | ||
Greetings CDBJ! I agree my friend! The only slight modification I would make is that the sin nature is actually put to death at salvation. We can still choose to yield to sin, but the nature itself has been put to death. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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