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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33522 | ||
Looking for thoughts on this Scripture: Romans 9 1 I speak the truth in Christ--I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit-- 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised![1] Amen. 6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son." 10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Your thoughts? Curt |
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2 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Robert Nicholson | 33671 | ||
Brother Curt and others: I have read all the posts thus far, and agree that this subject has been debatable for centuries. Was John Calvin a Calvinist? I enjoyed the idea that the Father by his Spirit draws us to Christ and when we are brought to him, he will not cast us out. In regards to the words of the Lord Jesus which have been referred to previously: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth will draw (all) men to me."(John 12:32) This was fulfilled in the short term at the cross, when people from all nationalites "stood and watched him there". The interesting thing is that of the responses of those who were brought to the cross. Some wept in sympathy, others reviled, some mocked and the thief asked for mercy. I believe that this saying in the light of calvary has a far more reaching prophecy. Paul in writing to the Philippins reminds them of the incarnation of Christ Jesus, his humility and his ultimate obedience to the death of the cross.(Phil 2:5-8) In verse 9 of the same chapter we read, that because of this (5-8) "God hath highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name: that at the Name of Jesus every knee should (will) bow and every tongue should (will) confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" I believe that since Christ died to atone for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2) then all are responsible for his death and will be drawn to him in grace and accept his free gift of eternal life, or will reject his offer and will eventually be drawn to him in Judgment. Either way, all will bow and acknowledge that he is Lord to the glory of the Father. In my humble opinion, I believe that Jesus is teaching that the call goes out to the "whosoever" in the following verse: "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3: 14-15) Curt, I think that at times the prolem is that puny (speaking of me) humans cannot totally grasp the concept of "God Divine Will and ForeKnowledge" The reason for this I believe, is due to the fact that it is his divine will and foreknowledge and as God he does not have to share it with us. When we try to comprehend it, we usally end up asking questions such as: "is it fair?" or If he knew Why didn't he...?" I think however, that the message of the gospel which God has given to through his Son is very clear. Still pondering Robert |
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3 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33695 | ||
Thanks Robert First, I agree, our minds are puny when we try to understand the largeness of God. Second, by no means do I want God to do what is "fair" for in this we are all condemned! My question is not so much " why this, or why that"... rather, it goes to "what is the nature of our relationship with God?" I ask this question because I believe that God is relational, and that He does want us to understand our relationship with Him (which goes something like this: God BIG, me little). I believe that the purpose of Scripture is exactly that, ie God communicating the nature of His relationship to us. Regarding the John 3 verses, I think it remains (in my mind) a question of this: can we believe unless God puts it on our heart to believe? Is it grace plus, or grace alone? Isn't our ability to believe an issue of faith, and isn't faith a gift from God? I think of Paul. He did not seek God, in fact God said to him "Why are you persecuting Me?". He was not being faithful. Yet God chose Paul and saved him from his sin. It was not God plus Paul, it was God in spite of Paul. By the way, this has been true in my life as well. Likewise, the fact that God chose Israel, by necessity, means He did not choose another people group. In this, I can only conclude that God is sovereign (I mean really really really sovereign) and can choose whom He pleases. To bring it down to a personal level, I'll ask you to consider a rhetorical question... In your own life, do you believe that your salvation was secured by God plus your desire for Him, or by God, in spite of you? In other words, if God hadn't reached out and grabbed you, would you have been saved? Did He put the desire in your heart, or was it inherently in you? Still pondering too Curt |
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4 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Robert Nicholson | 33711 | ||
Brother Curt: I had a much longer reply, however every time I try to go back from preview, my entire post is lost. I agree totally with you....but? I also agree that God desires us to search into his greatness that we might know him better. On the other hand we are not surprised when we find some things difficult to understand. Your example of Saul of Tarsus illustrates how that God will bring those who appear to be disobedient to his call to their kness, asking for forgivenness. If Paul would have made his own decision and if the Lord had not brought him down, he would have continued on with his religious zeal and without Christ. In Isaiah 53 we read "there is nothing in him, that we should desire him". In the post that I lost, I went over my experience with God. I will give you the short version. There was nothing inherently in me or my family that would endear us to God. I only knew the name of Jesus and of God as words to use in vain. I knew nothing of church or religion. My father who was 35 at the time was doing well at farming and yet within he felt an emptiness and a void. One day by chance (NOT) an old man visited us and told us he was having gospel meetings in a hall would we attend. My dad said, maybe, meaning no. The next day the preacher went down into the cow stable to talk to my dad and invited him again. This time he went and in a few weeks he was gloriously saved. This is how the good news came to me and my 4 siblings. I believed the messsage which my dad gave us and yet I could not understand it. I even tried believing on Christ and found that even though I thought I believed, I was not saved. One day on the way home from school, kneeling on a snowbank at the end of my laneway, I cried out to God in my need "I can't get saved, please help me!" And there alone as I thought of the words of John 3:16 I came to realize that Jesus had died for me. I rested on him and his promise that "I would not perish, but have everlasing life. My understanding was limited, but my joy was real and over the years God has continued to reveal to me what it was that I really came into "in Christ". In retrospect, I believe it was the Spirit of God who sent the messenger to our home and persisted with my father. In my own case it was God who placed me in a family where I would hear his word. It was God who worked within my heart and showed me my need and finally it was God who revealled the truth of his word to me. However, if I am preaching the gospel, I preach to the whosoever will! Paul says that one plants and another waters, but it is God that gives the increase. Praise his precious name. Robert |
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5 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33716 | ||
Bingo! I could not agree more. We follow the Great Commission because we are commanded to. God chooses whom He will... He knows which seed will be harvested and which will wither, we do not. Thus we carry the message to all, and let God do the rest. My salvation story is similar to your Dad's but much seedier. I KNOW that God chose me, not the other way around. He grabbed me by the collar, spun me around and pointed me in the right direction. He saved me from an abysmal self-destructive life. He is the sovereign merciful Lord to whom I owe all. I had nothing to do with my salvation, and freely admit it. One of the strongest supports, in my view, for the doctrine of election is the personal testimonies of people who are saved! By the way, to solve your "disappearing text" problem (my home computer does the same) do this: When you preview the text, use your mouse to highlight the text you wrote. With the text highlighted, press CTRL-C to copy it to memory. Then back up from your preview. Click your mouse pointer once on the text window. Then press CTRL-V to paste the text back into the window. This will get you back to where you were. Blessings Curt |
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