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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 33647 | ||
Hello Brother Tim, That is an interesting thought. However, there are some who would say that in John 12:32, the idea is that He will draw all "peoples", meaning not just Jews, to Himself. Perhaps He is actively drawing from all nations. ("Men", as I recall is not in the Greek, is not in the orignal. Can you verify that for me?) Would this fit the context of the passage? The word "draw" if I am not mistaken is active. Meaning that what is drawn actually comes, like a sword or a fishing net. Obviously, if it could be passive (i.e., the drawing only works if the object drawn wants to be drawn) then John 6:44 could possibly be interpreted that way. Your thoughts? In Him, Benjamite |
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2 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 33649 | ||
Greetings Benjamite! I have enjoyed reading your posts my new friend! You are correct that the word "men" is not in the text. 'All' is masculine plural adjective though. Frankly, I have never been impressed with the interpretation that "all" refers to "all kinds of people or nations". IMHO it is an exampe of reading something into the text to make it agree with a particular doctrine. Concerning the context though, notice that there is no mention here of the relationship between Jews and Gentiles, as there is in some of Paul's passages. Thus, I think the plainest and simplest reading is to take it at face value. For instance, if I send you a one line e-mail which simply said, "I love all". Would you assume that I meant "all kinds of people" or would you assume that I meant "all people"? Unless there is some other qualifying word, "like all brothers", or "all believers", or "all nations", I would take it as a reference to all individuals. About Jn. 6:44, the verb is active. But the distinction between active and passive concerns doing the action as opposed to be acted upon, not on whether or not the object wants to be drawn. Notice though that John 6:44 never says that the one drawn "will come". It says that he is not "able to come" unless drawn. Thus, I see the two verses as saying that because of our sin, we are not able to come to God, unless we are drawn. However, at the cross, Jesus drew all men to Him. Thus, now we are able to come, if we choose. Thus, John 6:40 - "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”" Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 33672 | ||
Tim: You wrote: 'Notice though that John 6:44 never says that the one drawn "will come". It says that he is not "able to come" unless drawn.' You are correct. It is John 6:37 which says that they WILL come. We can imply that, because Christ will raise them up on the last day, those people mentioned in 6:44 are people who WILL come. --Joe! |
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4 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 33674 | ||
Greetings Joe! I saw that verse! :-) I was going to do some more research on that one. It uses an unusual word for 'come'. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 33749 | ||
Just out of curiosity, this Greek-ignorant brother would like to know if the same word for come is used throughout this passage (v. 37 to the end of the chapter). --Joe! |
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6 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 33780 | ||
Greetings Joe! Good question! There are actually several different verbs. They are, in order of appearance: John 6:37 - "shall come" is the Future, Active, Indicative, 3rd, Singular of 'heko'. John 6:37 - "the one who comes" is the Present, Deponent, Participle, Masculine, Singular, Accusative of 'erchomai'. John 6:38 - "I have come down" is the Perfect, Active, Indicative, 1st, Singular of 'katabaino'. John 6:41 - "that came down" is the Aorist, Active, Participle, Masculine, Singular, Nomative of 'katabaino'. John 6:44 - "to come" is the Aorist, Active, Infinitive of 'erchomai'. John 6:45 - "comes" is the Present, Deponent, Indictive, 3rd, Plural of 'erchomai'. John 6:50 - "which comes down" is the Present, Active, Participle, Masculine, Singular, Nomative of 'katabaino'. John 6:51 - "that came down" is the Aorist, Active, Participle, Masculine, Singular, Nomative of 'katabaino'. John 6:58 - "which came down" is the Aorist, Active, Participle, Masculine, Singular, Nomative of 'katabaino'. John 6:65 - "come" is the Aorist, Active, Infinitive of 'erchomai'. I don't know that there is any special significance to the variation. 'Erchomai' seems to be used mostly in terms of the individuals who come to Christ. The only unusual features that I noticed about John 6:37 is that the pronoun is neuter and that an unusual word for 'come' is used there. I'm not sure it means anything. I just wanted to check it out some more. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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