Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33522 | ||
Looking for thoughts on this Scripture: Romans 9 1 I speak the truth in Christ--I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit-- 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised![1] Amen. 6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son." 10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Your thoughts? Curt |
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2 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 33569 | ||
Curt, I realize this is usually an in house conversation and debate within the Reformed tradition. There is however a Catholic variation on the TULIP theme based the theology of Thomas Aquinas proposed by James Akin: T Total inability (to please God without special grace) U Unconditional election L Limited intent (for the atonement's efficacy) I Intrinsically efficacious grace (for salvation) P Perseverance of the elect (until the end of life). Emmaus |
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3 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 33583 | ||
Emmaus, I don't think this needs to be an "in house conversation" (meaning, as you say, "within the Reformed tradition"). Would you mind expanding on your TULIP? I mean, the words are different, but how would this "play out" differently from the TULIP of the "Reformed tradition"? Also, would you mind backing the points up? Benjamite |
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4 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 33587 | ||
Benjamite, In some ways it may unfold differently, but the end result is the same. The different words are actually those used by others in the Reformed and Baptist camp who are sometimes unhappy with the implications of words like "totally depraved", "limited atonement" and "irresistable grace" which they find misleading or perhaps offensive for a variety of reasons. I suppose one main difference may be that it follows more closely to the school of Evangelical thought that does not hold to the "once saved always saved" position. Another would be the differnce between holding that all those who are predestined persevere until the end as opposed to the thought that those who preserve to the end are the predestined. Which implies more that it might seem and would seem to be tied to the first point. I am afraid I may not do this subject justice. You should find this article of interest. I especially recommend you read the footnotes or endnotes also. I would be interested in your opinion of the article since it may be more your cup of tea than mine. It is titled A Tiptoe Through TULIP, elsewhere referred to as How close can a Catholic get to Calvinism? :-) by James Akin http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/tulip.htm Emmaus |
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5 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 33593 | ||
Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to at least give it a shot. From what you say, it sounds like there are a lot of interesting points. Thanks also for the link. I'll get back to you about it. Benjamite |
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