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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 33523 | ||
Hi Curt, Fancy meeting you here. I guess we can focus our discussion on 9:11-18. Obviously this passage is true. One view is that even though God's "choice" in v. 11,17 happened before Esau and Pharaoh, it was based on God's divine foreknowledge (he knew what they would do and therefore chose on that basis). This seems an attractive position, but it would make it hard to explain v. 15-16, and 18. So you know where I am coming from, I go with the 4-point Calvinist view, as defined below. Total Depravity - Man is dead in sin, with every aspect of his being affected by the fall, unable to save himself. (Romans 3:10ff) Unconditional Election - God's choice is not based on anything man has done, but on Himself, alone. (queue Romans 9:15-16,18) Unlimited Atonement - here's where I differ from the "true Calvinists" and I cite verses like 1 John 2:2, speaking of Christ as the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. Irresistible Grace - Luke 14:23, John 6:44. "compel" them to come in. "nobody comes to me unless he is drawn by My Father" Perseverance of the Saints or Eternal Security - Philippians 1:6 - He who began a work will perfect it until the day of Christ. Romans 8:28-39 - As far as God is concerned, even our glorification is assured, and that hasn't happened yet. (I view "glorified" as being proleptic (basically defined above). This is probably more than you are looking for, but it gives any number of springboards. In Him, Ben |
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2 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33528 | ||
Hi Ben Well, this isn't going to be much of a debate unless some others jump in. I'm pretty much where you are. Can you expound a bit on your issue with unlimited atonement? Curt |
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