Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Jesus Created or Creator??? | Rev 3:14 | christian7 | 94899 | ||
this verse in the KJV makes Jesus sound like a creation of God.I am having a hard time with a friend of mine at work over this verse. Any help would be appreicated as I know Jesus is as much the Creator as is God. | ||||||
2 | Jesus Created or Creator??? | Rev 3:14 | Truthfinder | 96011 | ||
Hi Christian7, You say in this post that Jesus is as much the Creator as is God. That spells: Jesus is not actually God himself. Just as John 1:1 says, and the Word was "with" God. How can you be "with" someone and at the same time be him? So, I agree with you here. Jesus many times referred to his father as "his God". So he couldn't be Almighty God, too. The Father Jehovah never refers to his Son as his God and Jesus taught us to pray to the Father, since he is our God. Truthfinder |
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3 | Jesus Created or Creator??? | Rev 3:14 | Makarios | 96014 | ||
Greetings Truthfinder, You say, "The Father Jehovah never refers to his Son as his God and Jesus taught us to pray to the Father, since he is our God." How, may I ask, do you interpret Hebrews 1:8, which says, "But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM." ? (the words of God the Father are capitalized in the NASB) Also, there is 1 Timothy 3:16, which states (using the NKJV): "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory." Please consider these verses as you contend that Jesus was not God Himself. I also have many more to refer you to, if you need any more. The entire gospel of John was written with the purpose of revealing to all in this world that Jesus was, in fact, God Himself. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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4 | Jesus Created or Creator??? | Rev 3:14 | Radioman2 | 96030 | ||
Makarios: The question you ask is: "How, may I ask, do you interpret Hebrews 1:8?" The answer you get may be to the question, which you did not ask: How does the Watchtower Society TRANSLATE Hebrews 1:8? But with reference to the Son: "God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness." (Hebrews 1:8 NWT) Radioman2 |
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5 | Jesus Created or Creator??? | Rev 3:14 | Truthfinder | 96038 | ||
Hi Radioman2, Since the Greek manuscripts have no punctuation why try and make the trinity appear true? That is a dishonest translation of Hebrews 1:8 Here are four other Bible translations that translate this verse as the NWT does; “But with reference to the Son: ‘God is your throne forever and ever.’” AT, Mo, TC, By Truthfinder |
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6 | Jesus Created or Creator??? | Rev 3:14 | Makarios | 96043 | ||
Greetings Truthfinder, When the translators of the NASB, NKJV and other translations (that are held in high regard) read or translate Hebrews 1:8 as a verse that ascribes Deity to Christ, they do not do so just on this single verse. The Deity of Christ is affirmed by Scripture in many other places, and not just this place. Jesus is in no way a 'lesser God' than the Father. In Isaiah 10:21, Yahweh Himself is called "Mighty God", which obliterates any suggestion that the expression must refer to a lesser deity as opposed to "Almighty God". Also, there is only one "Mighty God", as seen in Isaiah 44:6,8 and 45:5. It is highly revealing to note that in Isaiah 40:3, Jesus is called both Yahweh and Elohim in the same verse: "In the desert prepare the way for the LORD [Yahweh]; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God [Elohim]." This verse was written in reference to the future ministry of Jesus Christ (John 1:23), and represents one of the strongest affirmations of Christ's deity in the Old Testament. Scripture is also clear that in His divine nature, Jesus is omniscient- just as omniscient as the Father is. The apostle John said that Jesus "did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man" (John 2:25). Jesus' disciples said, "Now we can see that you know all things" (16:30). After the Resurrection, when Jesus asked Peter for the third time if Peter loved him, Peter responded: "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you" (21:17). Jesus knew just where the fish were in the water (Luke 5:4-6, John 21:6-11), and He knew just which fish contained the coin (Matt. 17:27; John 7:29, 8:55, 10:15, 17:25). Jesus was omniscient just like His Father in heaven. In John 14:28, is Jesus saying that the Father is greater than He? Not at all. Jesus is not speaking in this verse about His nature or His essential being (Christ had earlier said, "I and the Father are one" in John 10:30) but is rather speaking of His lowly position in the Incarnation. The Athanasian Creed affirms that Christ is "equal to the Father as touching his Godhood and inferior to the Father as touching his manhood." The Father was seated in heaven upon the throne of highest majesty while His incarnate Son was despised and rejected of men, soon to be nailed to a criminal's cross. It is from this perspective that Jesus could say that the Father is 'greater' than Him. In His divine nature, Jesus was fully equal to the Father. But in his humanity, Christ could say that the Father was 'His God' (John 20:17). Also, Christ and the Father are utterly equal in their divine being (John 10:30), though Jesus is functionally under the Father's headship (1 Cor. 11:3). There is no contradiction in affirming both an equality of being and a functional subordination among the Persons in the Godhead. Christ in His divine nature is fully equal to the Father, though relationally (or functionally) He is subordinate or submissive to the Father. Also, Jesus is called the 'firstborn' in Colossians 1:15. Christ is the 'firstborn of creation' in the sense that He is positionally preeminent over creation and is supreme over all things. He is also the "heir" of all creation in the sense that all that is the Father's is also the Son's. Revelation 3:14 says that Christ is "the Beginning of God's creation".. This refers to Christ as the 'active beginning of the creation, the One who caused the creation, referring to Jesus Christ not as a created being, but the One who created all things (John 1:3). Jesus is the architect of all creation (Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2). God is both the beginner and consummation of creation. He is the first cause of creation; He is its final goal. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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7 | Jesus Created or Creator??? | Rev 3:14 | DarcyA | 96047 | ||
Makarios, Amen! Great post and everything. So much truth there. |
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8 | Jesus Created or Creator??? | Rev 3:14 | Makarios | 96053 | ||
Thank you Darcy! Hopefully it will shed some light for those who do not believe that Jesus is, in fact, God Himself! I must confess: the quickest way to get me to post, or come to the defense of the Forum, or to get riled up in general, is for someone to question the Deity of Christ. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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