Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why can we not just be Christians? | 1 Pet 1:2 | Not yet | 151519 | ||
In his post #351 concerning Calvinism Kalos made the following statement " . . . WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH ABOUT ELECTION? Election is the act of God whereby in eternity past He chose those who will be saved. Election is unconditional, because it does not depend on anything outside of God, such as good works or foreseen faith (Romans 9:16). This doctrine is repeatedly taught in the Bible, and is also demanded by our knowledge of God." Though I know that there are many who are much more learned than I will ever be, I simply do not read the words of scripture as making such a statement as is noted above. No doubt, they can be read as saying such, but the following is how I read it. God is an all knowing God. Before He created the heavens and earth, He knew each and every soul who would ever walk the face of the earth. He also knew who and who would not accept His Word, which was and is His one and only Son. Thus, “Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will . . . . . . “ Ephesians 1:4-5,11 Is it not his will, as is stated in scripture, that none should perish. If it were as is stated by Kalos, in having chosen His Elect, would it not be His will that the non elect would perish? Who are those he knew? Are they not those whom, from the beginning, He knew would know Him? I think this is more likely to fit the description of the loving and Graceful God of scripture. Is our faith not by His Grace? No, I do not believe that God just “picked and chose” from the pot of humanity, who would, and who would not be saved by His Grace. And though many interpret otherwise, I do not believe such a statement can be found in scripture if one takes scripture as it was intended, “as a whole,” not a bit here and another bit there. “Cover to cover.” I am called a Republican, but I am not a Republican. I am called a conservative, but I am not a conservative. I am called a Calvinist, but I am not a Calvinist. I tend to vote Republican because the party tends to poses morals, and lean toward what is scripturally founded, though they do not always operate by either. I tend to be a bit conservative. I believe the bible teaches such, but it also teaches charity and sympathy. I am called Calvinist because I believe what scripture teaches, even though others read it differently. I once looked up the biblical definition of the word “sin.” One of the many definitions of sin in scripture, is “anything done to the excess. It appears to me that Republicans, Democrats, Conservatives, Liberals, Calvinists and Armenianists, or what ever they are called, all tend to be ULTRA--Republican, ULTRA- Democrats, ULTRA-Conservatives, ULTRA-this and, ULTRA-that. Even when the opponent is right, they refuse to admit it and change their views. Why can we not just be Christians; All members of one body; the body of Jesus Christ, our savior? |
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2 | Why can we not just be Christians? | 1 Pet 1:2 | kalos | 151520 | ||
Foreknowledge 'Occasionally someone will suggest that God's election is based on His foreknowledge of certain events. This argument suggests that God simply looks into the future to see who will believe, and He chooses those whom He sees choosing Him. Notice that 1 Peter 1:2 says the elect are chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father," and Romans 8:29 says, "whom He foreknew, He also predestined." And if divine foreknowledge simply means God's knowledge of what will happen in advance, then these arguments may appear to have some weight behind them. '....But that is not the biblical meaning of "foreknowledge." When the Bible speaks of God's foreknowledge, it refers to God's establishment of a love relationship with that person. The word "know," in both the Old and New Testament, refers to much more than mere cognitive knowledge of a person. Such passages as Hosea 13:4-5; Amos 3:2 (KJV); and Romans 11:2 clearly indicate this. For example, 1 Peter 1:20 says Christ was "foreknown before the foundation of the world." Surely this means more than that God the Father looked into the future to behold Christ! It means He had an eternal, loving relationship with Him. The same is true of the elect, whom we are told God "foreknew" (Romans 8:29). That means He knew them--he loved them--before the foundation of the world.' (www.gty.org/IssuesandAnswers/archive/election.htm) Grace to you, Kalos * * * * * * * * * * * * * www.seekfind.org Christian Search Engine The mission of SeekFind.org is to provide God-honoring, Biblically-based, and theologically-sound Christian search engine results in a highly accurate and well-organized format. |
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3 | Why can we not just be Christians? | 1 Pet 1:2 | Not yet | 151555 | ||
Original Question: Why can we not just be Christians; All members of one body; the body of Jesus Christ, our savior? Kalos responded: Answer: Foreknowledge 'Occasionally someone will suggest that God's election is based on His foreknowledge of certain events. This argument suggests that God simply looks into the future to see who will believe, and He chooses those whom He sees choosing Him. Notice that 1 Peter 1:2 says the elect are chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father," and Romans 8:29 says, "whom He foreknew, He also predestined." And if divine foreknowledge simply means God's knowledge of what will happen in advance, then these arguments may appear to have some weight behind them. '....But that is not the biblical meaning of "foreknowledge." When the Bible speaks of God's foreknowledge, it refers to God's establishment of a love relationship with that person. The word "know," in both the Old and New Testament, refers to much more than mere cognitive knowledge of a person. Such passages as Hosea 13:4-5; Amos 3:2 (KJV); and Romans 11:2 clearly indicate this. For example, 1 Peter 1:20 says Christ was "foreknown before the foundation of the world." Surely this means more than that God the Father looked into the future to behold Christ! It means He had an eternal, loving relationship with Him. The same is true of the elect, whom we are told God "foreknew" (Romans 8:29). That means He knew them--he loved them--before the foundation of the world.' (www.gty.org/IssuesandAnswers/archive/election.htm) Grace to you, Kalos * * * * * * * * * * * * * Not Yet responded: Thank you Kalos. Though it appears there is room for doubt, I feel strongly that you have proven my position. There are many "positions" in scripture, which cannot be proven absolutely. I feel personally that these passages are of little consequence to those of us who are firmly rooted in Christ. However a doctrine such as this, can easily dishearten the sinner who feels unworthy, or even a week child of God. Still, dear brother, you did not answer my question. “Why can we not just be Christians; All members of one body; the body of Jesus Christ, our savior? “ I prefer an answer as biblically founded as possible. |
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4 | Why can we not just be Christians? | 1 Pet 1:2 | DocTrinsograce | 151556 | ||
Dear Not Yet, You asked, "Why can we not just be Christians; All members of one body; the body of Jesus Christ, our savior?" We already are, something that God has done. Read, for example, Ephesians. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (Ephesians 1:10) For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (Ephesians 2:14) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (Ephesians 2:16) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:4-6) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. (Ephesians 4:25) You wrote, " There are many 'positions' in scripture." That is not true. There are many positions held by man men. The Scripture does not hold positions. The Scripture is truth revealed. God has communicated coherently and clearly. I think it will be necessary for me to post on the doctrines of the necessity, clarity, and sufficiency of Scripture. In Him, Doc |
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5 | Why can we not just be Christians? | 1 Pet 1:2 | Not yet | 151565 | ||
Yes, dear brother we already are, but just as in the days of the Apostles, there is so much division. So then, how can a house divided, stand? I know that the Church will never fall, but there are so many within, who are conforming to the ways of the world, and so few who seem to care enough to “fight the good fight.” You state, "You wrote, " There are many 'positions' in scripture." That is not true. There are many positions held by man men. The Scripture does not hold positions. The Scripture is truth revealed. God has communicated coherently and clearly.” Perhaps I could have worded my statement more appropriately, but I would like for you to show me where scripture gives an absolute answer to the "once saved, always saved" question, or the doctrine of Grace and predestination. No doubt you can show me what "you consider" an absolute answer, I can too, but then there is much scripture which can be provided to cast doubt on either of our assertions. There is no doubt that “God has communicated coherently and clearly,” but no one can truthfully make the statement that there is any one particular individual who understands “all His communications, coherently an clearly,” thus I stand behind my statement, " There are many 'positions' in scripture." Yet I will reword it to say that there is much in scripture, which has many interpretations to choose from, numbers of which, are scripturally founded... Until our eyes are opened, who can say which is the correct interpretation? Bottom line, Proverbs 3:5-6. I would love to see the "doctrines of the necessity, clarity, and sufficiency of Scripture." Even more so, I would love to meet the man who has mastered them. Oh, there are many who profess, and many who, no doubt do know much, butI simply do not believe that there is anyone on the face of the earth who fully understands the whole of the word of God. |
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6 | Why can we not just be Christians? | 1 Pet 1:2 | kalos | 151573 | ||
What does this verse mean to you? ____________________ "Otherwise, we would be saying that God did not actually mean anything specific when He inspired the writers of the Bible. If we were to say that God's word can mean different things, then the word of God doesn't mean anything at all." ____________________ "I was once at a Bible study and the Bible study leader read several verses of Scripture. He then pointed out a particular verse and asked people what they thought it meant. The verse was not particularly ambiguous, and it was not explicitly clear. So, people in the room began to give their opinions on what the verse meant. Some of the opinions contradicted each other. I waited to see what the Bible study leader would do with these contradictions and how he would handle what the verse might actually mean. He simply said that all the opinions sounded good and that we must find out for ourselves what God's word means. Of course, this bothered me. Such relativism is dangerous. "The Bible study leader proceeded to go on to another verse where the same thing was done and other opinions were offered. After a few minutes I could no longer remain silent and I spoke up. Not wanting to dominate the study, I tried to remain polite and cautious as I attempted to correct an error that had just happened in the Bible study. "I carefully pointed out that though there are times when certain scriptures are difficult to understand and that our opinions on these verses might be equally valid, if they contradict each other, they cannot all be valid. Furthermore, I pointed out that we must not subject God's word to our opinions. It is a mistake to have a group of people look at a Scripture and offer varying opinions on what it means as though God's word means only what it means to us at that time and that we can contradict each other and that's fine. Instead, we should ask ourselves "what does a text say?" We should work hard at trying to discover the best single possible meaning to the text is -- if that is applicable. We should not view God's word as a well from which we draw whatever feeling, sensation, or opinion that suits us for the time. Instead, we must do our best to find out what the word actually says to the best of our ability instead of "feeling" our way through the scriptures using relativism as a guide. Otherwise, we would be saying that God did not actually mean anything specific when He inspired the writers of the Bible. If we were to say that God's word can mean different things, then the word of God doesn't mean anything at all. The problem here is that relativism was creeping into the Bible study. "The danger in this is that if taken to its logical extreme, verses could mean anything we wanted them to mean. With no absolutes to draw from, apostasy would begin to creep in. For example, I am reminded of how some major denominations are actually putting millions of dollars into studying the issue of homosexuality to determine to what extent people can be held responsible for this sin... if they determined that it is a sin at all! This, of course, leads down the road apostasy and needs to be stopped. "So I ask you. When you study God's word devotionally, or otherwise, do you hope to find what it actually means so you can subject yourself to what it says, or do you try and find a meaning for Scripture that suits your needs, your feelings, and your desires? I would hope that you do the former. We need to check ourselves. "To test yourself, I suggest that you read Romans 9:9-23. This section of Scripture is often difficult to interpret and can even be controversial. But it is God's word nonetheless. In it, there is a test. As you read the text, see if you find yourself objecting. See if you find yourself complaining the same way Paul did. See if you ask the same basic objections to the arguments that Paul is raising. If you do not, then you are failing to understand the text. If you do raise the same basic objections as you read through the verses, then that means that you understand what it says...not what you hope it means. Then, see what your attitude is towards what the text says. It can be very revealing. "Let our devotion to God be a subjection to his word." (http://www.carm.org/devotions/verse.htm) * * * * * * * * * * * * * www.seekfind.org Christian Search Engine The mission of SeekFind.org is to provide God-honoring, Biblically-based, and theologically-sound Christian search engine results in a highly accurate and well-organized format. |
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7 | Why can we not just be Christians? | 1 Pet 1:2 | Not yet | 151789 | ||
Scripture says what it means and means what it says. The Word, is not relative. It is absolute, but even absolutes have comparisons. The fact that one can associate personal experiences in life with scriptural depictions, and learn from the comparison, does not make their conclusions incorrect, as long as they do not differ from the line of scripture. Scripture can mean many different things to different people, depending on the current happenings in their life at one particular time. When one studies something, they attempt to understand and master the fundamentals of that something. Understanding and mastering the fundamentals of scripture is just like graduating college. One can use what they have learned and build on it, or simply spread what they know as a teacher. In the case of scripture, hopefully the teacher will be led by the Spirit. Teachers do not always have the benefit of experience. They tend to teach what they have been taught, and consider everything else superfluous, incorrect or irrelevant. . Romans 15:4 For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope. Who can say that learning cannot come from association? In His loving Name. |
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8 | Why can we not just be Christians? | 1 Pet 1:2 | kalos | 151808 | ||
Not yet: I could agree with you if you were to say: "Scripture (scriptural truths) can have different APPLICATIONS in the lives of different people, depending on the current happenings in their lives." But the MEANING of a passage of Scripture does not change according to a person's needs. The MEANING does not depend on the current happenings in their lives. Therefore, I cannot agree with your assertion, as you worded it: "Scripture can mean many different things to different people, depending on the current happenings in their life at one particular time." Grace to you, Kalos ******************** "This verse means to me...." ____________________ "Avoid adlibbing in Bible interpretation. Avoid free wheeling in Bible interpretation." ____________________ 'Avoid superficial interpretation...avoid superficial interpretation. One of the common problems in interpreting the Bible is this little phrase, "This verse means to me...." so forth and so forth and so forth. Let me tell you something. It doesn't matter what it means to you, the question is what would it mean if you didn't live? What would it mean if you didn't exist? What does it mean period is the issue, not what does it mean to you. 'Sometimes you'll hear people get together and supposedly have a Bible study which is little more than a pooling of ignorance. People say, "Well, I look at this verse and I feel this verse is saying..." It doesn't matter what you feel. That has nothing to do with it. It's not a matter of how you feel about the verse, it's not a matter of what you think it means to you. Avoid adlibbing in Bible interpretation. Avoid free wheeling in Bible interpretation. Haphazard handling of God's Word. 'We all want to acknowledge the priesthood of the believer...yes, we all want to acknowledge that we have anointing from God, the Spirit of God who dwells within us and the Spirit of God who dwells within us is the teacher who teaches us. We all want to acknowledge that. But that is not justification for flippancy dealing with Scripture. That's why in 1 Timothy 5:17 it says, "The elders who work hard in the Scripture are worthy of double honor." It is hard work. 'Avoid superficial interpretation. Avoid "this means to me." That is not a statement that should preface any interpretation of Scripture. The question is, what does it mean if you don't exist? What did it mean before you were born? And what will it mean after you're dead? What does it mean to people who will never meet you? What does it mean period, is the issue' (www.gty.org). __________ http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/70-19-6.htm * * * * * * * * * * * * * www.seekfind.org Christian Search Engine The mission of SeekFind.org is to provide God-honoring, Biblically-based, and theologically-sound Christian search engine results in a highly accurate and well-organized format. |
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9 | Why can we not just be Christians? | 1 Pet 1:2 | Not yet | 151885 | ||
I stand corrected. You, dear Kalos, are 100 percent correct. I tend to think of scripture and truth as one and the same, and chose to omit the latter. NYP |
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