Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 33442 | ||
charis; They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for awhile believe, and in time of temptation FALL away. KJV(Lk. 8:13 Mark 4:16-17) Fall in the above verse is the greek word aphistemi, which means to depart, or apostatize from ones once held profession of faith. In the above verse notice: 1. they hear the word 2. they receive the word with joy 3. But they have no root (this refers merely to the shallowness of their faith, or lack of depth) 4. They believe for awhile 5. Then FALL away (they don’t endure to the end) However they were believers for a time who did become apostates There is an eternal "if" in every consideration of eternal security. IF we walk in the light; IF that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son; IF any man draw back; IF a man abide not in me, he is cast forth; IF a man keep my saying: IF thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off: IF ye do these things, ye shall never fall; IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end; IF we endure; IF we deny Him, He also will deny us; IF we sin willfully..there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins; IF ye forsake Him, He will forsake you; ye are my friends IF ye do whatsoever I command you; IF ye live after the flesh, ye shall die. proponents who deny that salvation can never be lost, reason on the subject in a marvelous way. They tell us, that no virgin's lamp can go out; (Matt. 25:8) that no promising harvest be chocked with thorns; (Matt. 13:22) no branch in Christ can ever be cut off from fruitfulness; (John 15:6) that no name blotted out of God's book! (Rev. 3:5) They insist that no salt can ever lose its savor; (mat 5:13) salt that loses its saltiness, no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot. Matt. 5:13 that nobody can ever "receive the grace of God in vain"; (2 Cor. 6:1) bury his talents' (Matt. 25:25) "neglect such great salvation"; (Heb. 2:3) "look back" after putting his hand to the plow. (Luke 9:62) That Nobody can "grieve the Spirit" (Eph 4:30) till He is "quenched," (1 Thess. 5:19) nor "deny the Lord that bought them" nor "bring upon themselves swift destruction." 2 Pet. 2:1 That Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth. Rev 3:16 They use reams of paper to argue that if one ever got lost he was never found; that if one falls, he never stood. If one was ever cast forth, he was never in and if one ever withered, (John 15:6) he was never green. And that if one draws back, (Heb 10:38) he never had anything to draw back from. That if one ever falls into spiritual darkness, he was never enlightened; that if you again get entangled in the pollutions of the world, (2 Pet. 2:20-22) it shows that you never escaped. That if you put salvation away, you never had it to put away, and if you make shipwreck of your faith, (1 Tim. 1:19-20) there was no ship of faith there. In short they say: If you get it, you can't lose it: and if you lose it you never had it. May God save us from accepting a doctrine, that must be defended by such fallacious reasoning. (John Wesley) Heb 13:5 he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. God will never just decide to forsake any believer, ever! Yet, the believer may decide to forsake Him. Once a believer has forsaken God He then will give them up to themselves and forsake them. This does not contradict that He will never leave or forsake a believer, rather it affirms that God is not the one who does the forsaking. If we fall from the faith, it doesn’t reflect negatively upon God’s faithfulness, but rather on our unfaithfulness Backslidding, or drifting from the faith (Heb.2:1) can also be Grieving (or saddening) the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30). Lukewarmness sets in, Rev 3:15-16… Continued backslidding results in the conscience becoming seared (1 Tim. 4:2) and the heart becoming caloused and hardened (Heb 3:13). Then we quench (1 Thess.5:19) (put out) the Holy Spirit's spark of spiritual life that He began within us. "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the LOVE OF GOD that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." there is a definite DIFFERENCE between the "LOVE" of God as mentioned in Rom. 8:38,39 and the "LIFE" of God, according to Scripture! This is easily proven by noting that UNSAVED people are LOVED by God, even though they are devoid of His LIFE! A clear case in point is the rich, young ruler who was certainly UNSAVED, yet LOVED by Jesus (Mk.10:21)! |
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2 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | charis | 33447 | ||
Dear zach†, Greetings to you in the name of Jesus! I hear your words and voluminous argument, but my opinion remains that you tread a path of judgement reserved to God Almighty. Again, your theory is fine, and the Scriptures are valid, but the practice of this method is beyond MY ability, and maybe beyond yours. Many blessings and much peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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3 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 34739 | ||
dear brother charis; I was just getting caught up on some of the many responses I have received, and couldn't remember if I had sent the following article your way for consideration on this topic or not. If I haven't I would appreciate your comments on it. If I have or if you have previously read this account please forgive me and ignore it. So here goes: Denying Christ: Has Bradley Lost His Faith? "I've made my choice," wrote the young basketball star. "I love Jesus Christ and I try to serve Him to the best of my ability. How about you?" Who is this--David Robinson of the San Antonio Spurs? It may surprise you to learn the tract was written 30 years ago by former Senator Bill Bradley. Bradley has since renounced his Christian beliefs,and his actions are a warning of the perils of political expediency--and of not holding our fellow believers accountable. The pamphlet, titled "I've Made My Choice," was published in the 1960s by the American Tract Society when Bradley was a rookie with the New York Knicks. In it, BRADLEY RECOUNTS HOW HE HAD ACCEPTED CHRIST while a student at Princeton. "I knew I had been giving my life to the wrong goals," he wrote. "I knew then that I wanted to give my life to Jesus Christ and His service." Not anymore, it appears. In his 1996 memoirs, Bradley says he was put off by the exclusive truth claims of fundamentalist Christianity. He was also bothered by the uncharitable attitudes and racism displayed by some Christians. Bradley now disavows his Christian beliefs and,according to "Investor's Business Daily," says he "now embraces all religions" from Buddhism to Islam, so long as they seek "inner peace." These are chilling words from a man who was once very active in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. It appears that he has either renounced his faith entirely--or he has decided, for political reasons, to renounce it publicly. Now, since I believe that a person once saved is always saved, I have to conclude that either Bradley was not truthful in his earlier testimony, or that this is purely a political move--that deep down, Bill Bradley does know the truth. Bradley's story is a cautionary tale, not just for Christians who go into politics, but for all of us. HERE WAS A MAN WHO WAS CONVERTING OTHERS TO CHRIST, and somewhere along the line, he got off the rails. It's a warning that we need to constantly keep ourselves fresh in the faith, to attend discipleship classes, and to hold one another accountable. It's a cautionary tale, as well, as to what the political system does to candidates. It does seem to reward politicians for turning their backs on unfashionable commitments, like Christian faith or pro-life positions. As for Bradley, I hope and pray he will to reconsider the words that he himself wrote in that long-ago tract: "The choice is simple. It is between the eternal and the passing, between the strong and the weak . . . between Jesus Christ and the world." -------------------------------------------------- So how do we explain a senario like this, and other like senarios of other individuals? Your comments will be highly regarded In Christ zach† |
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4 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | CDBJ | 34743 | ||
Hi zach, here are some verses that hit the nail right on the head. 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. Mr. Bradley didn't truly believe Acts 4:12 and his works prove it. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. James 2:26 could be considered a two way street. James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Mr. Bradley's works proved that his faith was dead. I hope this helps, CDBJ |
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5 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 34757 | ||
CDBJ; Ok but how do account for the fact that, HERE WAS A MAN WHO WAS CONVERTING OTHERS TO CHRIST? In Christ zach† |
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6 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | CDBJ | 34852 | ||
You said how do I account for the fact, which in fact isn't a fact! If he converted people to Christ then they aren't saved either, it's God the Holy Spirit that does the converting not a man and this is done through the Word of God. A talking parrot could direct someone to Christ if he could recite God's word. Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I hate to burst a lot of peoples bubbles, but God doesn't need us we need him. Luke 19:37-40 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; 38Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. 39And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. 40And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. One of the big problems within the local church today is that there are to many human converts. Thus we have the parable of the wheat and the tears spoken of by Christ. Matthew 13:24-30 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. This might seem a little harsh but the fact is that God's Word does all the work and we are no more then instruments of God and usually dull ones at that. God gets ALL the credit for revealing Jesus to a person. Matthew 16:13-17 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Do you see the answer in the last part of this verse? We are nothing but God is everything. The Gospel is what does the work in our lives some are putting on a great act and they arn't even born again, because it seems like the thing to do at the time. I hope that I have not confused you by this, CDBJ |
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