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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Some will depart from the faith | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 33238 | ||
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith 1 Tim. 4:1 Question: 1. If I read this verse correctly then it must be possible to fall away from the faith. The KJV phrases it this way. 1Ti 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, So in the NASB it says fall away from the faith and in the KJV it says "depart from the faith. Question 2. How can a person not in the faith depart from the faith? Don't you have to be in the faith before you can depart from it? For example: I desire to depart from Chicago airport. Don't I first have to be in Chicago, before I can depart from Chicago? 1 Tim. 4:1 does not say some might depart from the faith, rather it says: "some will depart from the faith." Does this mean some will depart from the faith, there once held profession, and possession and become apostates, and lose their salvation? |
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2 | Some will depart from the faith | 1 Tim 4:1 | 10ECPreacher | 33400 | ||
Greetings, zach†. Here are a few addtional scriptures that show unequivocally that it is possible to depart from the faith--which is another way of saying "lose your salvation." "SINCE ALL this is true, we ought to pay much closer attention than ever to the truths that we have heard, lest in any way we drift past [them] and slip away." [Hebrews 2:1 Amplified] "[Therefore beware] brethren, take care, lest there be in any one of you a wicked, unbelieving heart [which refuses to cleave to, trust in, and rely on Him], leading you to turn away and desert or stand aloof from the living God." [Hebrews 3:12 Amplified] "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through [the full, personal] knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they again become entangled in them and are overcome, their last condition is worse [for them] than the first. For never to have obtained a [full, personal] knowledge of the way of righteousness would have been better for them than, having obtained [such knowledge], to turn back from the holy commandment which was [verbally] delivered to them. There has befallen them the thing spoken of in the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and, The sow is washed only to wallow again in the mire. [Prov. 26:11.]" [2 Peter 2:20-22 Amplified] "[My] brethren, if anyone among you strays from the Truth and falls into error and another [person] brings him back [to God],Let the [latter] one be sure that whoever turns a sinner from his evil course will save [that one's] soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins [procure the pardon of the many sins committed by the convert]." [James 5:19-20 Amplified] "For if we go on deliberately and willingly sinning after once acquiring the knowledge of the Truth, there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward]. [There is nothing left for us then] but a kind of awful and fearful prospect and expectation of divine judgment and the fury of burning wrath and indignation which will consume those who put themselves in opposition [to God]. [Isa. 26:11.]" [Hebrew 10:26-27 Amplified] I would like to point out that there is a vast difference between a Christain that merely "falls down" and one that "falls away." The latter is apostasy, for which I can find no Biblical antidote. I have personally dealt with many Christians who were in despair because they had fallen down, and someone had misapplied the Scriptures concerning "falling away" to them. To "fall away" is to completely abandon the faith. The book of Jude addresses this problem--it is called by some "The Acts of the Apostates." I note with interest the admonition of Jude: "Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe." [Jude 3-5 NASB] Beginning with the Children of Israel, Jude gives example after example of those who had been "saved" by God (in the O.T.), only to ultimately "lose their salvation." This warning he gave to N.T. believers, lest we should wind up in a similar shape. Kind regards, Tim D. Cormier Tennessee Preacher |
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3 | 491 Club? | 1 Tim 4:1 | charis | 33405 | ||
Dear 10EC, Greetings in the name of Jesus! I hear what you are saying. I consider this to be true. My question is, "Just how easy (or difficult) is it to commit this unforgiveable sin?" I know a man in Yokohama that owns a pub (Trust that I do not frequent such places any longer! My relation with said fellow is B.C.) named the '491 Club.' This person is quite familiar with the Bible, but not a Christian. His *statement* is that Christians believe in grace, but many limit it! Thus, *491* is the 'unforgiveable sin.' (7 times 70, plus 1!) Except that this 'falling away' is but a 'theoretical' possibility, how can we measure it? I do not believe we can, nor should we dwell on this 'possibility.' This I why I am "once saved, always saved!" In Christ Jesus, charis |
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4 | 491 Club? | 1 Tim 4:1 | 10ECPreacher | 33424 | ||
Greetings, charis. I will be the first to admit that there is MUCH misunderstanding concerning just how great is the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. I consider this to be one of the most tragic of all observable phenomena in the entire arena of Christianity. I am convinced that there are very many who consider themselves irretrievably lost when they are really just a prayer away from reconciliation. We probably agree more than we disagree on this point. I simply would like to point out that there are far too many scriptures warning the believers against "apostasy" for it to be only a "theoretical possiblity." Why would automobile manufacturers repeatedly post warnings against the dangers of approaching the speed of light in a vehicle, for example? It is "theoretically possible" to do so, but "practically impossible" in our vehicles. Yet, we have repeated warnings against apostasy in the N.T. If it were only a "theoretical possibility," then many, many passages could be argued to have little or no practical value. One more passage for consideration: "But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off." [Romans 11:17-22 NASB] Kind regards, Tim D. Cormier Tennessee Preacher |
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5 | The measure of death? | 1 Tim 4:1 | charis | 33433 | ||
Dear 10EC, Greetings from Japan in the name of Jesus! You are correct that we probably have much more in common than we do not! :-) The problem is (to me!) quite simple. If we claim that salvation is 'loseable,' we must bear the burden of knowing how it is lost! It is very convenient to say, "That's easy! Whenever we deny Christ, or deny the Holy Spirit (depending on which 'proof-Scripture' we are using), we are separated from His grace by our willful departure." But the hard part is being more specific! This is why I use the word 'theoretical.' According to most popular methods of accounting, some of the greatest men of faith (Moses and David come to mind, as well as Paul by self-confession) deserve death. Yet God has a different method of accounting that we can never fathom. I have given this completely to the Lord. I see your Scriptures, and I see the 'opposing' Scriptures that claim proof of absolute assurance. Both parties (camps) lead to a form of legalism that I do not see substantiated in the Bible. To give an example of said legalism, the 'loseable' side usually ends up having to decide on a 'measure' of saved/unsaved, which does not bear up under the historical record of the Bible. The 'unloseable' side does fine until someone starts acting unsaved, which inevitably leads to 'not saved from the beginning' or 'that was false salvation' judgement. I KNOW the measure of life, but can I know the measure of death? If I err, I err on the side of salvation and grace, placing my life in His capable hands for measure. If you are right, I plead mercy to He who is merciful! Thank you for your kind regards! My blessings to you as well! In Christ Jesus, charis |
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6 | The measure of death? | 1 Tim 4:1 | 10ECPreacher | 33474 | ||
Greetings, charis! Your reasoning is very sound. I, too, cannot find in the Scripture a clear-cut and concise way of knowing exactly and precisely when a person has lost his or her salvation. You are exactly right--we do know the measure of life, but only God knows the measure of death. I think of it like the "line" that separates day from night. Obviously, at the two extremes may be found light and darkness; yet, between them lies a pretty big area of gray--in varying intensities (some call this the "twilight zone"). Who but God really knows at what point the one that wanders from the light into the twilight zone actually crosses over into gross darkness? All I can say assertively is what the Scripture says. "Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" [Hebrews 10:28-29 NASB] Only God knows how long he will allow someone to "insult grace" before visiting them with judgment. May the grace and peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Tim D. Cormier Tennessee Preacher |
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7 | The measure of death? | 1 Tim 4:1 | EdB | 33482 | ||
10EC Your a wise man with another astute observation. Again this dialogue between you and Charis should be "Once Saved Always Saved 101". Bless you both EdB |
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