Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did Jesus die _only_ for the elect | 1 Tim 3:1 | bjanko | 13452 | ||
If Jesus died for all, then all would be saved. But all are not saved. Only some are saved: the elect. Those are the ones Jesus died for. To say otherwise is to say that Christ is not able to save, effectually, those whom He has chosen. To say otherwise is bring God down and to raise man's will up on a pedestal. |
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2 | Did Jesus die _only_ for the elect | 1 Tim 3:1 | Morant61 | 13483 | ||
Greeting Bjanko! I understand your position and why you believe the way you do. However, I do not agree. In my opinion, Calvin forced Scripture to fit the mold of his conception of what sovereignty meant. Calvin could not conceive of any kind of freedom on the part of human beings, because he felt that limited freedom would mean that God is not sovereign. So, he completely twists the clear message of Scripture that Christ died for all. Consider the following verses of Scripture: 1) Concerning the extent of the atonement: a) 2 Cor. 5:19 - "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. " b) John 3:16-17 - "‘‘For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." c) John 12:32 - "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” d) John 6:33 and 51 - "For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” ..."I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” e) Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." f) 1 John 4:14 - "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world." g) 1 Timothy 2:6 - "who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time." 2) Concerning the will of Christ to save all: a) 1 Timothy 2:4 - "who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." b) 2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." c) Romans 11:32 - " For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." I believe that all of these verses demonstrate the love of God, in that He died for all and desires all to be reconciled to Him. The tragedy is that so many fail to respond to the grace of God. I know that from your perspective, you will say that in each of these verses all only means some. However, I am not convinced. I'll take Scripture for what it says and believe that Christ so loved the world, that He gave His life, that whosoever will....can believe and receive eternal life. That is Good News! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Did Jesus die _only_ for the elect | 1 Tim 3:1 | bjanko | 13491 | ||
I'm sorry that your philosophy would lead you into the error of making man's will on a higher level than God's sovreignty. |
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4 | Did Jesus die _only_ for the elect | 1 Tim 3:1 | Morant61 | 13492 | ||
Greetings Bjanko! In a debate, it is useful if you respond to the points that the other side makes. I just quoted you a whole list of Scriptures, not philosophies, which state that Christ died for all. How do you deal with them from a Calvanistic perspective? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Did Jesus die _only_ for the elect | 1 Tim 3:1 | Reformer Joe | 13495 | ||
Tim: I think his point was that you had already said you knew what the Reformed arguments would be, and that there was no point in re-stating them. --Joe! P.S. You know that there are already other threads where you and I have gone around on this. Why are we bringing it to a thread based on a verse which has absolutely nothing to do with election? |
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6 | Did Jesus die _only_ for the elect | 1 Tim 3:1 | Morant61 | 13521 | ||
Greetings Joe! I'm sorry about the thread. As I shared in a couple of my new posts, I have nothing but respect for you and several others on this forum who hold a different theological perspective than I do. I was simply annoyed to see this particular individual equating Arminianism with Pelagianism. The two have nothing in common whatsoever. Arminisim is not a heresy. Further, it is not even a non-sensical position. From my perspective, it makes great sense of the passages I quoted. Therefore, I couldn't resist the urge to ask Bjanko to back up his words. Unlike you, he hasn't. Instead of a treatment of the relevant Scriptures, all I have gotten is pronouncements about my philosophy. I enjoy debating the issue with you Joe! However, you are right, we can do it at another thread at another time! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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