Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are there any true prophets/prophetss' t | Eph 4:11 | Morant61 | 194507 | ||
Greetings CDBJ! No prophecy would ever trump God's Word! I think we all would agree with that point. However, prophecy isn't just about 'adding' new books to the Bible. Prophecy can be both foretelling and forthtelling. In fact, applying God's word to a specific situation would be prophetic. Someone brought up Billy Graham. When he stands before a crowd and says, 'Thus saith the Lord, you must repent' - that is prophecy. My main concern about this topic though is that there is no verse in the Bible that says these gifts or offices will end with the completion of the canon. There is a verse that says they will end, but when? So, I believe that we (as the church in general) are cutting out the gifts that God has said He will give to us on the basis of one possible meaning of one very unclear verse. :-( I don't know about Brad, but most ceasassonists (sp?) that I have known believe all spiritual gifts have been done away with when the Canon was completed. Are we really comfortable, based upon one unclear verse, saying that all of the spiritual gifts are no longer valid? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Are there any true prophets/prophetss' t | Eph 4:11 | DocTrinsograce | 194509 | ||
Dear Tim, Let's be careful that we properly represent other people's positions. Wayne Grudem, in his Systematic Theology (p1031) asks the question "Are all the gifts mentioned in the New Testament valid for use in the church today?" There are three distinct groups that respond to this question. One group simply answers yes, while another give a qualified yes. The cessationists says no, arguing "that some of the more miraculous gifts (such as prophecy, tongues plus interpretation, and perhaps healing, and casting out of demons) were given only during the time of the apostles, as 'signs' to authenticate the apostles during the early preaching of the gospel. [Further stating] ...that these gifts are no longer needed as signs today, and that they ceased at the end of the apostolic age, probably at the end of the first century or beginning of the second century A.D." Note that the cessationists does not say "all spiritual gifts have been done away with when the Canon was completed." (sic) Such hypothetical cessationists would have to deny the illumination of the Word by the Holy Spirit... and even regeneration! Note, instead, that the kinds of gifts are carefully qualified. Nevertheless, even the most strident Reformed cessationists never articulate the cessationist perspective as you have done. On the contrary, Westminster Seminary Professor Richard Gaffin wrote, "Often, too, what is seen as prophecy is actually a spontaneous, Spirit-worked application of Scripture, a more or less sudden grasp of the bearing that biblical teaching has on a particular situation or problem. All Christians need to be open to these more spontaneous workings of the Spirit." Furthermore, some of the most well known cessationists do not use the passage to which you made oblique reference (1 Corinthians 13:12). John Calvin called such an application "stupid." Martyn Lloyd-Jones called it "nonsense." We could get into a discussion about how cessationists actually do arrive at their position -- and they do so in a less tenuous fashion than you've implied -- but I don't want to get too far afield. Perhaps in another thread we could hear directly from a cessationist on the topic. The primary purpose of this post is to correct the misrepresentation of the cessationist view -- which thing I hope I have adequately done. In Him, Doc PS I think the cessationist view receives one of the most scholarly and exhaustive treatment in the classic work "Counterfeit Miracles" by B. B. Warfield. Although John Owen and Jonathan Edwards both give it thorough treatment, but in language less comfortable to most modern readers. |
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3 | Are there any true prophets/prophetss' t | Eph 4:11 | Morant61 | 194512 | ||
Greetings Doc! I am on my PDA, so excuse my brevity. In my defense, my comments were based upon personal contacts, not theology books. ;-) The position I described was exactly what I have encountered in real life. And, the 1 Cor. 13:12 passage was used in each instance. But, if I get the opportunity, I will check out some of the materials that you recommended. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Are there any true prophets/prophetss' t | Eph 4:11 | DocTrinsograce | 194525 | ||
Ah! Well, you actually did say that, didn't you? Then let my correction stand as addressed to your personal contacts rather than to you yourself. I use my phone on SBF too... but I can't quite get the whole page on there properly. Wireless is great, though, isn't it? :-) |
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5 | Are there any true prophets/prophetss' t | Eph 4:11 | Morant61 | 194536 | ||
Greetings Doc! I check the forum quite often on my Treo, but I try not to respond on it to often. I am too slow at typing on it! :-) I do like my new phone though. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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