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NASB | Ephesians 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Ephesians 4:11 And [His gifts to the church were varied and] He Himself appointed some as apostles [special messengers, representatives], some as prophets [who speak a new message from God to the people], some as evangelists [who spread the good news of salvation], and some as pastors and teachers [to shepherd and guide and instruct], |
Subject: Are there any true prophets/prophetss' t |
Bible Note: Dear Tim, Let's be careful that we properly represent other people's positions. Wayne Grudem, in his Systematic Theology (p1031) asks the question "Are all the gifts mentioned in the New Testament valid for use in the church today?" There are three distinct groups that respond to this question. One group simply answers yes, while another give a qualified yes. The cessationists says no, arguing "that some of the more miraculous gifts (such as prophecy, tongues plus interpretation, and perhaps healing, and casting out of demons) were given only during the time of the apostles, as 'signs' to authenticate the apostles during the early preaching of the gospel. [Further stating] ...that these gifts are no longer needed as signs today, and that they ceased at the end of the apostolic age, probably at the end of the first century or beginning of the second century A.D." Note that the cessationists does not say "all spiritual gifts have been done away with when the Canon was completed." (sic) Such hypothetical cessationists would have to deny the illumination of the Word by the Holy Spirit... and even regeneration! Note, instead, that the kinds of gifts are carefully qualified. Nevertheless, even the most strident Reformed cessationists never articulate the cessationist perspective as you have done. On the contrary, Westminster Seminary Professor Richard Gaffin wrote, "Often, too, what is seen as prophecy is actually a spontaneous, Spirit-worked application of Scripture, a more or less sudden grasp of the bearing that biblical teaching has on a particular situation or problem. All Christians need to be open to these more spontaneous workings of the Spirit." Furthermore, some of the most well known cessationists do not use the passage to which you made oblique reference (1 Corinthians 13:12). John Calvin called such an application "stupid." Martyn Lloyd-Jones called it "nonsense." We could get into a discussion about how cessationists actually do arrive at their position -- and they do so in a less tenuous fashion than you've implied -- but I don't want to get too far afield. Perhaps in another thread we could hear directly from a cessationist on the topic. The primary purpose of this post is to correct the misrepresentation of the cessationist view -- which thing I hope I have adequately done. In Him, Doc PS I think the cessationist view receives one of the most scholarly and exhaustive treatment in the classic work "Counterfeit Miracles" by B. B. Warfield. Although John Owen and Jonathan Edwards both give it thorough treatment, but in language less comfortable to most modern readers. |