Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does sin prove one is not a believer? | 1 Cor 6:9 | David24597 | 157918 | ||
Hello Wild Olive First I requested you stick with only scripture. You added a quote from someone elses interpretations of the scriptures. Those verses you DID supply obviously would only apply to those that "have endured to the end" Matt. 10:22. There is nothing there in your references that shows it is not possible to again return to a sinful life and lose your salvation. Only if you have lost your free will you then have lost the power to choose. In which case you are not a creature of God (for He has created us with the power to choose) but have become a slave to another. |
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2 | Does sin prove one is not a believer? | 1 Cor 6:9 | Wild Olive Shoot | 157954 | ||
Philippians 1:6 John 6:39 John 17:12 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 1 Peter 1:3-5 1 John 4:4 John 10:27-30 John 3:16 Titus 3:7 In case we don't know what eternal means, it means forever, never ending, once we have it, we have it always. WOS I didn't quote anybody. |
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3 | Does sin prove one is not a believer? | 1 Cor 6:9 | David24597 | 157960 | ||
Wild Olive I am not denying that the saved have eternal life. Most of these texts also support that. What I am saying is the saved must contunue until the end to remain saved. Allow me to examine some of the texts you provided. Phil 1:6 is conditional "if" we remain sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. verse 10 So is that of 1 Peter 1:3-5 dependant upon our remaing faithful "to the end". verses 13 and 14 1 John 4:4 needs to be read with the entire chapter. Verse 12 adds the condition "if we love one another" and verse 17 shows a developement of that love over time. John 10:27-30 only applies to those that follow Jesus - verse 10. Obviuosly "follow" does not mean follow for a short time then turn away again later but to follow as long as they live. You should have added verses 20 and 21 to the text from John 3:16. It to is conditional upon our continual obedience. Funny you should add Titus 3:7 without including the very next verse there either. Consider 11 Chron. 1:13 and 1 Peter 1:13 Theres is abundant evidence in scriptures showing the saved must continue on in their fauth to remain saved. It would be a waste of time to take several hours searching through the Bible for passages most of you would discount anyway as you have those I have already supplied. I suggest each and every one of you to go back to the beginning, read the Bible through from Gen. to Rev. paying special close attention to every place this subject is mentioned. See for yourselves whether salvation is depentant on our remaining faithful throughout our lives. |
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4 | Does sin prove one is not a believer? | 1 Cor 6:9 | mark d seyler | 157968 | ||
Hi David, I want you to know that I have spent a great many hours on this specific subject, looking at every passage that any number of people use to make the claim you are making. I am a person whose only interest is in knowing the truth, whatever it may be. You say that to remain saved, you must continue in your faith. Can you actually show me a scripture that says that very thing? That you who are saved must continue faithful or you will no longer be saved? That the born-again can die-again? I agree that it is a waste of time to examine verses with someone who has no interest in honestly examining a issue. Perhaps the most useful course of action you could take at this time on this forum would be to go to the archives, and read some of the discussion that has already taken place, to find out who believes what, and what "proofs" have been offered. If you enter 141225 in the search box, this will take you to one of many in which this topic has been discussed. "Remaining faithful" is not a condition of salvation, it is a condition of salvation. If "remaining faithful" were a condition, then salvation would be by my continuing good works, and declares Jesus' statement from the cross "it is finished" a lie, that it is not finished, not until I finish it myself. I would be happy to email to you some of the Bible study I have done on this topic. I will leave you with this: “I am saved if I hold on to my faith til the end, if I keep myself from returning to sin. If I do not do these things, I may lose my salvation. The work of salvation is begun by God, but continued by me. The work of maintaining my salvation is mine, and so the glory upon reaching heaven is mine.” Is this what the Bible teaches? I don't think so. Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | Does sin prove one is not a believer? | 1 Cor 6:9 | David24597 | 157990 | ||
Hi Mark. You said “I am saved if I hold on to my faith til the end, if I keep myself from returning to sin. If I do not do these things, I may lose my salvation. The work of salvation is begun by God, but continued by me. The work of maintaining my salvation is mine, and so the glory upon reaching heaven is mine.” Is this what the Bible teaches? I don't think so. You are so close to what I am saying but still a bit short of the mark. Consider Isa. 1:18 and Phil. 2:12. We can of our ownselves do nothing. But, with the help of the Holy Spirt, yes the work of maintaining our salvation is our own, with God's help. The "glory upon reaching heaven" is a SHARED glory. |
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6 | Does sin prove one is not a believer? | 1 Cor 6:9 | David24597 | 157991 | ||
again I wish there was an edit button to add this to the end of my last post: John 17:22, Rom. 8:18, 1 Cor. 15:41-43, 11 Cor. 4:17, Eph. 1:18, Col. 3:4, 1 Thess. 2:14, Heb. 2:10, 1 Peter 5:1-4 I added these cause I'm sure some will think I am trying to claim God's is not the only glory should be recieved. But our glory is that we give it to God. Rom. 15:17, 1 Cor. 1:29-31, 11 Cor. 10:17, Gal. 6:14, Rev, 21:24-26 |
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7 | Does sin prove one is not a believer? | 1 Cor 6:9 | mark d seyler | 158015 | ||
Hi David, Consider the following as an example: 1 Cor 8:10 "For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend." This is just one of many scriptures that people use to make the claim that you can lose salvation. They say that this is talking about a brother, and that they can perish - lose salvation. We can perish physically or spiritually. John 15 tells us that the branch that does not bear fruit the Father takes away (this is not the branch that is burned – those are cast out, then gathered to be burned. This branch the Father takes away.) If I embolden my weaker brother to sin against his conscience, and he does not return to a fruitful walk, the Father may take him home, and so his earthly life is over, he perishes. The word translated “perish” is apoleitai from apollumi, which is variously translated as lost (as the sheep Jesus searches for - Matt 10:16), lose (to lose a reward – Mark 9:41), perish (John 3:16), die (expedient that one man should die – John 18:14), destroy (cast down but not destroyed – II Cor 4:9). If this passage refers to spiritual death, then my poor witness and stumbling my brother has greater power than God’s power that keeps him (I Peter 1:3). Depending on how you translate apollumi, the weaker brother may become misguided, missing a reward, may die, may be destroyed. This verse does not require as its only meaning that the weaker brother has lost his salvation. Compare to I Peter 1:23 “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth (stays) for ever.” If I have stumbled a brother into sin, and he ‘die-again’, I will have corrupted the incorruptible, and caused to leave what the Bible says stays forever. I use this example to make this point. You cannot use verses that have a broader range of meaning to interpret those that have a narrow range of meaning. You must begin with those that have a very narrow range of meaning, and use them to understand the others. I hope this helps. Love in Christ, Mark |
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