Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Free will and predestination co-exist? | Rom 8:29 | mark d seyler | 178558 | ||
Hi ZtheBerean, What I actually said was: "I agree with you in priciple that it is by the grace of God that we are made able to be obedient to faith." Not that we are "made to be obedient to faith." I believe the term commonly used to describe my understanding is "prevenient grace", although I do not claim all of the associations you will find with this term if you google it. This is the essence of Romans 10:9: Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), Rom 10:7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; You can't reach up into heaven to pull Christ down to you. You can't reach into the grave - this isn't by your power. But God has brought salvation to you. It is as near to you as your heart is, and as your lips are. God has brought to you the message of faith, that if you believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth, you will be saved. God has brought this to you, now, just receive it as your own - confess - say the same thing as - agree with God, and believe - put your confidence in - the God Who raised Jesus from the dead will raise you - and you will be saved. My point was simply to say that the grace spoken of in Romans 1:5 which you referenced was a grace given to Paul specifically for a specific purpose. The Paul has received grace, and we have received grace, but the grace received in verse 5 was received by Paul, and it does not serve our discussion to take that out of context. Believing and Faith are the same thing (Greek Pisteuw), therefore, believing is not "obedience to the faith", it IS the faith. Also, "grace" is from "charis", and speaks of favor, or gift, while "glory" is from "doxa", which speaks of good report, or high opinion. I understand that we have a sharp disagreement over this concept. I do not wish to become involved in a protracted debate. The most important matter between us is that we both believe. Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Free will and predestination co-exist? | Rom 8:29 | ZtheBerean | 178579 | ||
Hello Mark, YOU stated: God brings to us the message of faith, that if we believe in our heart, and confess with our mouth, we will be saved. I am NOT supprised that you do not wish to "debate" with this kind of theology. You need to remember that God needs to give us a NEW heart, without which our faith is dead, although our lips can honor Him, our hearts are far from Him. Your belief system has you believing with your old heart, which is deceitfully wicked, and who can know it? No, I have no living hope in your faith, which is conditioned upon having a wicked heart, which is deceived. Rather God needs to give us a new heart, so that it could be said that we are His people. If you are humbled by God's word, you can find this truth in many places, and once you have found it, you should ask God to give you a new heart, so that you can have a living faith, which is moved by grace in the power of God in our Lord Jesus Christ. If you are unable to receive this truth, you may have no further reply, and I shall not need to speak to you again. However, if you wish to continue to reason against the Scriptures, you must know that I can continue to set forth the truth, which you cannot do anything against. It would be better for you and everyone else, if you could confirm that YOU also needed to have God give you a new heart before you could have a living faith too? Whenever, you chose, you must agree with the Scriptures, God had already chosen YOU (2Thes. 2:14). If there is any further disagreement, you should focus on 2Thes. 2:13-14. Blessings in His grace, Ztheberean |
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3 | Free will and predestination co-exist? | Rom 8:29 | humbledbyhisgrace | 178582 | ||
Greetings Z! You said " I am NOT supprised that you do not wish to "debate" with this kind of theology." in reference to "God brings to us the message of faith, that if we believe in our heart, and confess with our mouth, we will be saved. Just curious if you have ever read this scripture Romans 10:9? On this matter I would say Marks theology is dead on based on scripture. What say you? Your Brother in Christ, Steve |
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