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NASB | Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew [and loved and chose beforehand], He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son [and ultimately share in His complete sanctification], so that He would be the firstborn [the most beloved and honored] among many believers. |
Subject: Free will and predestination co-exist? |
Bible Note: Hi ZtheBerean, What I actually said was: "I agree with you in priciple that it is by the grace of God that we are made able to be obedient to faith." Not that we are "made to be obedient to faith." I believe the term commonly used to describe my understanding is "prevenient grace", although I do not claim all of the associations you will find with this term if you google it. This is the essence of Romans 10:9: Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), Rom 10:7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; You can't reach up into heaven to pull Christ down to you. You can't reach into the grave - this isn't by your power. But God has brought salvation to you. It is as near to you as your heart is, and as your lips are. God has brought to you the message of faith, that if you believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth, you will be saved. God has brought this to you, now, just receive it as your own - confess - say the same thing as - agree with God, and believe - put your confidence in - the God Who raised Jesus from the dead will raise you - and you will be saved. My point was simply to say that the grace spoken of in Romans 1:5 which you referenced was a grace given to Paul specifically for a specific purpose. The Paul has received grace, and we have received grace, but the grace received in verse 5 was received by Paul, and it does not serve our discussion to take that out of context. Believing and Faith are the same thing (Greek Pisteuw), therefore, believing is not "obedience to the faith", it IS the faith. Also, "grace" is from "charis", and speaks of favor, or gift, while "glory" is from "doxa", which speaks of good report, or high opinion. I understand that we have a sharp disagreement over this concept. I do not wish to become involved in a protracted debate. The most important matter between us is that we both believe. Love in Christ, Mark |