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NASB | Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew [and loved and chose beforehand], He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son [and ultimately share in His complete sanctification], so that He would be the firstborn [the most beloved and honored] among many believers. |
Subject: Free will and predestination co-exist? |
Bible Note: Hi ZtheBerean, Thank you for your gracious reply! You have raised some interesting points, and I would like to look at the Scriptures you have referenced. You wrote: "We need to receive grace in order to be obedient to the faith (Rom 1:5)" While I agree with you in priciple that it is by the grace of God that we are made able to be obedient to faith, I think you mean this in a slightly different way than I do. But what does this verse that you have referenced say: Rom 1:4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, Rom 1:5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake, Rom 1:6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; This seems to me that Paul is saying that he is the one who has received grace and apostleship, for the purpose of bringing about the obedience of faith to the gentiles. So that the grace that was received was received by Paul, not the gentiles (though to be saved, and to be sanctified, I believe the gentiles do receive grace). Paul received this grace to render him able to minister to the gentiles, so this grace spoken of is not grace that was received by the gentiles to produce obedience in them. Do you agree with this? Concerning Romans 10:17, this is a plain statement, indeed, that "faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." But we know that not all that hear the reading of the Bible are saved, right? When you look at the entire chapter, what is Paul telling us? The Jews seek to establish their righteousness according to the Law. Christ put an end to the righteousness of the Law. The only righteousness that is available is that which comes through faith in Christ. Those who believe will be saved. But how can one believe unless they hear? How can they hear unless one is sent? (this is condensed, but check the chapter) They didn't all heed, even though they heard. But the most telling part of this chapter towards how we are saved is: Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. The word forms are very specific: "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" is subjunctive. "If you confess . . . believe. . ." sets up a condition upon which the later clause "you will be saved", which is future tense, is dependant. "If you do this, you will...", "if you do not do this, you won't..." is the idea. "Confess" and "believe" are active voice verbs - these are things you must do. So while this chapter tells us that the process of salvation includes learning about salvation, the conditional aspect of salvation is not a matter of hearing the Word, else we could simply stand on the street corner reading aloud, and everyone in earshot would be redeemed. But the conditional aspect of salvation is whether or not we confess and believe according to this passage. Let me know what you think of these things. I will address your other points in another post. Love in Christ, Mark |