Results 1 - 12 of 12
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | Morant61 | 148208 | ||
Greetings 1-2Steve! Forgive me for not just calling you Steve, but we have other Steves on the the forum. :-) I would fully agree with you my friend that anyone believing that tongues is necessary for salvation is completely wrong. :-) Also, allow me to say that while we may not agree on every point, I am glad that you are on the forum. Allow me to make just a few brief comments, as I am falling asleep! ;-) 1) The fact that angels communicated in known languages does not necessarily mean that there is no such thing as a 'tongue of angels'. If I were to speak only Spanish to you, it would not necessarily follow that English did not exist. :) So, the best we are left with is that it is possible that 'tongues' only refers to 'human' tongues, but that it is also possible that it can refer to the 'tongues' of angels as well. 2) There seems to be evidence in Scripture for a private and a public use of tongues. Paul explictly says that if no one can interpret, one should speak to himself and God. Just because someone hears a 'tongue' today and does not understand it, does not mean that it can't be a real tongue - it may simply be one of those instances where no interpreter is present. I would totally agree with your point about the modern practice of tongues. Scripture is quite clear that if no interpreter is present, one should keep quiet and not speak out publically. This rule is violated all the time in churches today. :-( 3) 1 Cor. 14:22 is one of those verses that if one reads 100 commentaries, one will get 100 different views. :-) But, I would disagree that 'that which is perfect' is Scripture. Do we really know now even as we are known? ;-) Personally, I take the approach that the time mentioned is when Christ sets up the new Heaven and new Earth. The timing certainly isn't clearly spelled out in Scripture. Personally, I think that if the time was soon, Paul would have made it more clear. I also don't think it is fair to assign 'tongues' to 'baby Christians'. Nothing in Scripture ever makes such a claim. 4) Lastly, experience should never over rule Scripture. However, that doesn't mean that experiences should not be a valid part of the Christian life. Do you experience peace in Christ? Do you experience joy in Christ? Do you experience love? The answer of course is 'Yes'! Does your experience in any of these instances indicate that you have place Scripture second to experience? Get some good rest my new friend! I plan on doing the same! ;) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | 1-2steve | 148226 | ||
Tim, I believe you are right about the different commentaries. They will vary. But you already know that when we study the Scriptures we "draw out"(exegesis) what we can to come to a conclusion, not read into (eisegesis). Then, we can go back and check our findings against the better commentaries. If that proves inconclusive, we still have the history of the church to look back on. Because whatever we come up with, if we don't see agreement in other comm. and church history, we could very well be wrong. And this is where humility comes in. We need to go back starting with the early church fathers and all the way up to now to see if what we believe lines up with most of all of church history. And my standing does line up with the major majority of church history. That is why I am so adimant about where I stand. Allow me to show you my stage of truth: 1) The bible 2) Reason 3)Tradition 4)Experience 5)Emotions The first one is the objective truth. Everything else is subject to interpretation. Notice that emotions or experience is not 1st , 2nd or third. This is the way I and many other Christians should view truth. Not on some emotional high.:) I would challenge anyone who thinks they can speak in tongues to pray in the "origional" language that God gave them for 1 month and see for themselves if their relationship is stronger or weaker. I think you'll find that the emotional experience you long for is as addictive as cocaine. You'll sweat bullets and probably fail a couple of times. It's a tough habit to break.:( Now, is the position I hold wrong? If your stage is different, what does your stage look like?:) Thanks for keeping me sharp!:) Prov.27:17 In Christ, steve P.S. I actually did get some good rest after racking my brain til 2:00a. And thanks for your hospitality!:) |
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3 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | Morant61 | 148230 | ||
Greetings Steve! I'm glad that you are rested my friend! :-) Thanks for sharing your stages with me! You may have already read my other post on this topic by now, but just in case you haven't, I would note that I am not a pentecostal (at least not in traditional terms). :-) I believe Scripture teaches that God distributes gifts as He wills. These gifts are empowerments for ministry. The church at Cornith was out of balance, and misusing some gifts. However, the gifts themselves are from God. If you read my posts on this forum (I have been active on here for several years now) or ask around, you will quickly find that I am someone who puts Scripture first. As for emotional experiences, you really need to ask before you assume something! :-) Trust me, I don't say this in anger at all my friend! I have and do pray in tongues, but it is very seldom. I would guess maybe a few times a year. I have spoken publically in tongues only a couple of times in my life, and yes there was an interpreter. :-) Emotional experiences are not something I crave, in fact, I probably go too far the other way if the truth were known. My stages would probably be the same as yours, except I would probably leave off emotions totally. As I have said, tongues is not really a major concern with me. My concern is with the conclusive statements being drawn from very inconclusive evidence. Where does Scripture say that there is no 'glossa' of angels? Where does Scripture say what the 'that which is perfect' is? Where does Scripture say that those who speak in tongues are immature? Where does Scripture say that 'tongues' will cease before prophecies and knowledge? These are just some examples of the types of conclusive statements that many make on this topic, without Scriptural support. Well, I have to check my work schedule. It has been good posting with you my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | 1-2steve | 148256 | ||
Tim, I just have one question since I've backed my argument with a number of Scriptures. If you spoke in public with an interpreter present, what could you have said that's not already in the bible?:) In Christ, Steve |
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5 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | Morant61 | 148267 | ||
Greetings Steve! Allow me to respond to your question with a question my friend. Where does the Bible say that a message in tongues must be something that is not already in the Bible? ;-) In fact, I would question the validity of any message that 'added' something new to the Bible. But, let's carry the implications of your question a little further. What does a preacher preach that it not already in the Bible? Do you see where this slippery slope could lead? Here is an example of the groundless assumptions I have been talking about. No where does Scripture say that a message in 'tongues' must be something new or unique that is not found in the Bible. Yet, this critia is used as a basis to reject tongues. :-( My limited experience with public tongues consited of messages of enouragement mostly - calls to trust God and that God would provide for His people. I have seen other gifts used in minsitry settings over the years. I was praying with a young lady in one service, when God's Spirit revealed some information to me that I had no way of knowing about her. When I asked her about, it was true and we were able to deal with the issues facing her honestly and openly. This is just one example of what spiritual gifts can do in terms of ministry. |
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6 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | 1-2steve | 148282 | ||
Dear Morant61, The answer to your question is found in 1 Peter 4:11. The NIV states: If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the "very words of God". And if a pastor preaches something that is not biblical, I would call into question his authenticity as a pastor. Jesus, Peter, Paul and Jude all speak of the perverbial wolf in sheeps clothing. And they are out there today. So we need to be careful what we believe.:) That's my view though. Also Heb. 4:12 states that the word of God is "living" and "active"...not tongues. So I do have Scripture that backs me up. I also believe that God could have revealed that same revelation to you without tongues. Because the fact of the matter is that you were sensitive to someone else's needs.:) :). I praise the Lord for people like that!!! In Christ, Steve |
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7 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | Morant61 | 148287 | ||
Greeting Steve! I would certainly agree with what you have said here, but I am curious about what you left unsaid. Where does Scripture say that a message in tongues must be something that is not found in the Bible? Lastly my friend, what does Heb. 4:12 have to do with tongues? :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | 1-2steve | 148309 | ||
Tim, Hey! What I was saying is that it's the word of God to be preached. Back 2000 yrs. ago, there was no N.T. so tongues were necessary as well as prophesy and knowledge. But the canon of Scripture is complete (including prophesy), so the need to speak in tongues today is unprofitable (I'm sure you'll disagree) because anything anyone says as far as teaching, instruction in righteousness, correction and reproof (2 Tim.3:16) is already found in the bible. So what need is there for tongues? Or prophesy, or knowledge? We have the inspired word of God to lean on and not some revelation from someone who could've easily been used by the devil to lead us astray. I'm open but very cautious. And my statement about Heb. 4:12 is simply the fact that if there are any words that someone needs to speak (as far as living the Christian life is concerned), then it should line up with God's word and not someone who spoke in tongues, and if tongues were so important, then it should have read that tongues are sharper than any two-edged sword. That was my point. But Scripture doesn't say that a message in tongues must be something that is "not" found in the bible. On the contrary, The word spoken in a tongue must line up. If not, it would not edify. But again the N.T. was not around back then, so the tongues back then would would have to line up with the teachings of Christ during His earthly ministry. I hope this helps? I'm not sure that I answered your question correctly. If so, could you restate the question? Thanks!!! In Christ, Steve |
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9 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | Searcher56 | 148312 | ||
Steve, greetings and welcome to the forum, Another Steve - good :-0 You said, "Back 2000 yrs. ago, there was no N.T. so tongues were necessary as well as prophesy and knowledge. But the canon of Scripture is complete (including prophesy)" I have posted something on prophesy and knowledge and tongues. There are differences when and why they will end. Enter 115095 under Quick Search. Is tongues for today? I don't know. But, I do know some misunderstand the purpose and practice of tongues. Read my post 116386 ... also 48618. Searcher aka Steve |
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10 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | 1-2steve | 148314 | ||
Searcher56, I went and checked out your post #116386 and 115095 and it seemed pretty sound!:) Though I still am not sure about knowledge or prophesy. But at this point, prophesy is in the N.T., and knowledge is there as well. So I have to believe that there is also no need for these sign gifts today. In Christ, steve |
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11 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | Searcher56 | 148368 | ||
Steve, only if the perfect has come, is knowledge and prophesy no longer needed. Tongues is a another issue. S |
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12 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | DocTrinsograce | 148376 | ||
Dear Steve, Just for proper balance, here are some good arguments for cessationism: Dr. Thomas Edgar of Captial Bible Seminary: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/5068/charismata/edgar.htm Dr. John F. Walvoord of Dallas Theological Seminary: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/5068/charismata/walvoord.htm Dr. Willem Berends of Reformed Theological College: http://www.pastornet.net.au/rtc/cessatn.htm And regarding the scriptural nature of tongues, I'd always recommend Charles Hodge: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/5068/charismata/hodge.htm Anyone serious about making some kind of normative behavior associated with signs and wonders should be familiar with all of the arguments and be able to address them. An alternative is to throw out sola scriptura entirely in favor of experientialism, thereby avoiding the arguments altogether. In Him, Doc |
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