Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | 1-2steve | 148207 | ||
First of all, I must apologize. I did not recognize the difference in the two. Even though I know that there is a difference, many that believe in speaking in tongues will declare this as evidence for their salvation (but these will also say that you can lose your salvation). So allow me to defend my position. 1. Starting in 1 Cor. 13. Verses 1-3 are hypothetical statements. There is no evidence of a "heavenly language". Everywhere in the entire bible that you see angels communicating, they are communicating in a language that the person understands.Isa. 6; Luke 1:26-38; Rev.5:11-14; etc... and anywhere that you see the angel of the Lord appear in Scripture. (And to add to verses 2 and 3, just ask yourself if Paul really could know "all" mysteries and have "all" knowledge. The answer is a resounding no. He was saying that even if he could do all these things, without love, it's vanity. And if he could, I'd sure like to see him explain the Trinity to me). 2. 13:10- first, tongues weren't just a bunch of put together syllables, it was literal languages (and "various" languages, not just a single language). In Acts 2:7-11, there are roughly 20 different dialects being spoken here. The language was an understandable language with the end result that about 3000 souls were saved because they "understood" what the disciples were saying, and because of speaking in their tongue, it gave Peter an oppritunity to present the gospel. This is what tongues are truly meant for. And secondly, there is supposed to be an interpreter. Now how many tongue speakers do you see today that have someone interpret what they say? They can't. How can you translate a bunch of jibberish? Also, if there is an interpreter present and he/she interprets what the one speaking in tongues is saying, the they should be able to translate it onto paper and interpret it into English. Right? 3.Paul declares it will be done away with when "that which is perfect comes". But what on earth does v. 11 have to do with it? He was saying that these sign gifts were for the baby Christians at that time. And when he matured they were no longer necessary. And by the time a.d. 100 came around, the N.T. was in circulation in the churches. There was no need for tongues (if you keep in context that tongues were for unbelievers as 14:22 clearly states) because the N.T. was complete and the gospel of Jesus Christ could be preached in the church(es). So what would the need for tongues be? What can one say that the bible doesn't? 4. Speaking in tongues places experience in front of the bible. The bible is clear in this matter. O.K., onto ch.14. Later on though, ya'll got me tired and my wife says I've been on the computer too long. Please don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, but as I've been tought, I was given 6 rules. And they are: 1,2,3) Context, context context. 4,5,6) Read, read read. In Christ steve |
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2 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | EdB | 148209 | ||
1-2steve On your point 2 I would be a little less dogmatic here. In New Guinea their language consists mostly of tongue clicks. In another language the same words repeated mean entirely different things depending on how often they are repeated. In effect you could speak a whole paragraph in that language just by repeating one sentence over and over. I don't think you nor any other is qualified or knowledgeable of all languages in existence to say a particular language is authentic or not. I have heard of people talking to others in that ones native language yet the person talking had no prior knowledge of the language or that it was the other persons native language. These are documented so we either have to agree that there are some genunine cases of tongues today or call these people liars. EdB |
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3 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | 1-2steve | 148219 | ||
EdB, I will agree that it is very possible that God will allow a situation like that to happen. The example you use is a tongue used for the purpose of winning a lost soul to Christ. This is biblical (and it doesn't happen daily either, just unique situations). And I have stated earlier that Wycliffe has gone into many different places, and learned whatever type of language the tribe or whatever was using and helped them put together a language so they could "translate" their language onto paper. Would you call this speaking in tongues? At least here, these people use their minds, where was is taught about tongues today is "just say the syllables and don't think about the sounds" as if God utterly by-passes the mind. And there is not one shred of evidence that would validate a "heavenly language". As I already said, the verse carries the "even though" idea. He was saying that even if he could speak in tongues of men (plural) and tongues of angels (or a heavenly language) (also plural) it's all a clanging gong w/out love. Love is the main point here, not tongues. I'll hit ch. 14 later but I hope this will be something to really think on. In Christ, steve |
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4 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | EdB | 148234 | ||
1-2steve As I said and I think you exhibit we need to be a little less dogmatic. I personally hold to a prayer language but I do so with serious reservations. When I first experienced it I found I could pray for hours in my prayer language. I equated quantity with quality. I began to mediate on what I was doing and found I have my mind and heart were not in the right place. I was doing something but it wasn't meaningful prayer as my mind was off in never never land. Having been around Pentecostals almost all my adult life I believe that this is the norm in most cases. People were using their prayer language to fill in the time while their minds were wandering on other things. They have nothing to pray about so they just use their prayer language and fill/spend time. I got very concerned about this and what I believed to be genuine prayer language. I began to pray that God through His Holy Spirit would show me exactly how this was to function. You may or may not agree with my understanding but I will present here anyhow. Christians first need to learn to pray in the knowing. I'm not talking about now I lay me down to sleep prayer but rather effective fervent pray that avails much. James 5:16. This kind of prayer does not come easily or readily but requires discipline, many hours on your knees and sacrifice on our part. This will be the type of prayer that will become predominate in you prayer life. Effective conscious fervent prayer that is prayed both in your language and with your full understanding. After the person has mastered effective fervent prayer then they can seek a pray language. As God through the Holy Spirit gives this, you learn your mind is still deep in prayer but you mouth is speaking out the words in a tongue foreign to you. You don't know what is being said by you do know the subject and general thrust of the petition being sent before the Lord. The third thing that must be learned is once you have a prayer language is that you haven't 'arrived'. All that has happened is your prayers have taken on another level but you as a person haven't become more holy, more spiritual or righteous. You have just learned another way to effectively communicate with the God. As I said at the beginning there is more abuse than genuine manifestations of the Holy Spirit present today. People want the gifts (benefits) without the work. They have learned a false manifestation and because they are not where they need to be spiritually they are deceived into believing they have the genuine. Now we can argue all day over the point of whether there is a prayer language or not but I think it would be far more productive to learn to pray effective fervent prayers and let the Holy Spirit teach us the rest. I wonder how many can honestly say they can pray and know that they know they have touched the very heart of God and that because of this God has responded? I think very few. I wonder how many have prayed through a situation in their life until they heard God’s response as Paul did when he prayed to God about the thorn in his flesh. Did you ever wonder why we argue over that thorn is Paul’s flesh and what it may have been and forget all about being able to pray until we receive an answer? Before we dogmatically state there is or isn’t a prayer language (tongues of angels) let us first learn to pray. EdB |
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5 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | DocTrinsograce | 148251 | ||
Good post, brother Ed! I appreciate your balanced and honest discussion of this often divisive topic. You asked the question "I wonder how many can honestly say they can pray and know that they know they have touched the very heart of God and that because of this God has responded?" I think it is important to remember that God does not accept the person for the prayer's sake, but the prayer for the person's sake. We see that in our recent discussion of Hebrews 11. Second, we can only expect that our prayers are heard when we are in a state of reconciliation with God. Jesus Christ is our intercessor. (See Revelations 8:3 and Isaiah 56:7.) Third, once we are reconciled to God, walking in submission and obedience to Him, we know our prayers are heard because of the assistance the Holy Spirit. "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts crying, Abba, Father." (Galatians 4:6) Fourth, we can know we are heard when our hearts, minds, and actions are fully committed to the Lord. "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord." (James 1:6-7) Fourth, we can know that our prayers will be heard when we pray according to God's will. (Luke 11:2) This seems obvious when you imagine trying to persuade God to do something contrary to His will! There are other things we could say about effective prayer, such as the importance of husband's relationship with their wives (1 Peter 3:7) and not praying to have things to fulfill the desires of our fallen nature (James 4:3). When we talk about praying with knowledge, we can all benefit in the forum. The tongues thing will probably always bring disagreement with it. There is so much we can learn from the Scriptures in which we do not disagree. The topic regarding the basics of prayer would seem to be one of them. Thank you for your post, Brother Ed. In Him, Doc |
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6 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | EdB | 148363 | ||
doc Effective means it does something, perhaps you read into what I said as saying telling God what to do. I didn't. I said we need to develop EFFECTIVE fervent prayer that touches God's heart to the point that God has responded. Perhaps God will say no much as He did with Paul but God responded none the less. EdB |
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7 | what is the importance of tongues? | Acts 2:4 | DocTrinsograce | 148364 | ||
Yes, that is what I was writing about. | ||||||