Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Greg Martin | 37711 | ||
Did the disciples have a choice? Jesus, who commands all nature and created the universe with His command, commanded Peter and Andrew, James and John, Matthew, and Levi "Follow Me" Did they have a choice? All the angels and even the demons must obey His command. They have no choice. Did the disciples? Matthew 4:18 And Jesus, walking by the Sea of Galilee, saw two brothers, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. 19 Then He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." 20 They immediately left their nets and followed Him. 21 Going on from there, He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. He called them, 22 and immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him. Matthew 9:9 As Jesus passed on from there, He saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he arose and followed Him. Mark 2:14 As He passed by, He saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he arose and followed Him. |
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2 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Searcher56 | 37712 | ||
Scripture ... Matt 22:1-14; Luke 18:18-30; John 15:16 ... Greetings Greg Martin, God started the choice process ... but, the 12 still had to make a choice as well. They are not robots to do what He wants. This is true for us and the angels. Hope this helps, Seacrcher |
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3 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Greg Martin | 37716 | ||
This is true for us because the Creator of the universe did not command us directly with the spoken Word. These disciples had a very different situation than that which we are in. They were confronted face to face with God speaking a command. If our Creator speaks "Let there be light" and the whole universe obeys and clicks on, how does any other part of His creation do differently? Just as He said "Let there be..." and it was, just as He said "Peace, be still" and it was, He commanded to the disciples "Follow Me." This is not a question or a suggestion. It is a command. He did not say "Would you like to...?" or "If you want to..." and He did not present the option as he did to the rich man, and to others. In the cases I cited, He gave a direct, unambiguous, single option command. Did they then have a choice? BTW, your citing of John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you." seems to be proof opposed to what you are proposing. |
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4 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Morant61 | 37720 | ||
Greetings Greg Martin! I quess the way I would answer this question is to look at the instances in Scripture where Jesus commanded someone to follow Him and they rejected. 1) Matthew 19:21 - "Jesus answered, ‘‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth." 2) Luke 9:59 - "He said to another man, ‘‘Follow me.” But the man replied, ‘‘Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” 60 Jesus said to him, ‘‘Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” 61 Still another said, ‘‘I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good-by to my family.” This one doesn't specifically state that these men refused, but the whole point of the story is that they did not follow, but turned back. Thus, based on these instances, I would say that even though someone receives a direct command from Christ to follow Him, they can still refuse. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Hank | 37734 | ||
Tim, I cannot help but concur that your view is the correct biblical exegesis and consequently reject the extreme idea that God, in effect, creates puppets, not people. --Hank | ||||||
6 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Morant61 | 37737 | ||
Greetings Hank! I recently purchased Norman Geisler's book, "Chosen But Free" because of a thread on this forum where it was being disussed. He includes an appendix where historical quotes about free will are listed. I thought it was extremely interesting. Here are a couple of samples. 1) Justin Martyr (A.D. 100-165) - "God, wishing men and angels to folow His will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness. But if the Word of God foretells that some angels and men shall certainly be punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably (wicked), but not because God created them so. So if they repent, all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God (Dialogue, CXLI)." 2) Irenaeus (A.D. 130-200) - "This expression, 'How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldst not,' set forth the anciet law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the begining, possessing hs own soul to obey the behests of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with Gd, but a good will (toward us) is present with Him continually (Against Heresies, XXXVII)." 3) Athenagoras of Athens (2nd Century) - "Just as with men who have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice (for you would not either honor the good or punish the bad; unless vice and virtue were in their own power, and some are dilligent in the matters entrusted o them, and others faithless), so it is among the angels (Embassy for Christians, XXIV)." I just thought these were interesting, because they give us a pick into the thought of those who lived near the time of the writting of the New Testament. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Hank | 37748 | ||
Thanks for the "BC" (Before Calvinism) quotes, Tim. I have a enormous respect for Dr. Geisler and will likely purchase his book from which you quote. Tim, the Bible says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. That's exactly how I came to have saving faith in Christ Jesus when I was 14 years old. I heard the Good News -- the Gospel -- preached, became convinced that it was true, became convicted that I was a sinner who needed a Savior and it was I who responded to the call. No one in heaven or on earth FORCED me to respond. Clearly, very clearly, I COULD HAVE CHOSEN TO REJECT CHRIST'S OFFER OF SALVATION. (I would expect this statement to be challenged on this forum!) --Hank | ||||||
8 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Reformer Joe | 37788 | ||
Hank, I think we are both aware how much it already has been challenged! --Joe! |
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9 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Hank | 37796 | ||
Joe, you're very right, we are both of us aware, and keenly aware too I believe, of how much challenge has been laid down to both sides of the issue. Furthermore, I submit it is vain to entertain the idea that we can settle on this forum this issue, or any other issue that has been so hotly debated for centuries without resolution. For so many months I've hoped for, prayed for, and really expected to see a higher level of discourse on this forum. But for a few notable exceptions, it has not been forthcoming. Will we learn any lessons from past mistakes? Who knows? I don't. --Hank | ||||||