Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | New Creature | 76227 | ||
While all that is true, 1 Tim. 4:1 is not speaking of those who simply appear to be in the faith, but of those who actually are in the faith, and their departure or apostasy from that faith is real. The verse says: they shall, not might deppart from the one true faith. So this is not the verse to attempt to imply a mere profession of faith, there are other verses like the ones in Matthew 7 to do that. This is addressing possessors, not mere professors only. It is said of the them "they shall depart from the faith" If I said "John shall depart from the airport, you would clearly understand that in order for John to depart from the airport, it is first necessary that John be in the airport. In order to depart from the faith, the person needs to first be in the faith. And if some shall depart from the faith, then the possiblity of others departing from the faith remains a real possibility. Once saved, we are not puppets, or robots. Our freedom of choice has not been removed once we become saved. Only a Sovereign loving God, could still allow us to retain such freedom. Praise His Holy Name Hallelujah God Bless New Creature |
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2 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | Reformer Joe | 76333 | ||
New Creature: You wrote: "So this is not the verse to attempt to imply a mere profession of faith, there are other verses like the ones in Matthew 7 to do that. This is addressing possessors, not mere professors only." The fact that other verses address false faith doesn't mean that this passage doesn't. That would be like saying that all the passages on justification by faith are not really talking about that because we have John 3:16. I think you raise a good question in addressing what Paul means here in 1 Timothy 4:1 when he refers to "the faith." Is he referring to one's personal faith in Jesus Christ or a corporate profession of faith? The word "faith" does not always mean "one's personal trust and belief." For example, we often refer to "the Muslim faith" or "the Christian faith." When we use such terms, we are not speaking of any disposition in the hearts of particular individuals. Rather, what we mean by that is a written or unwritten confession of what a particular religious group holds as truth. The Christian faith, in that sense, objectively remains the Christian faith regardless of anyone personally clinging to it or departing from it. Of course, the question remains whether that is the sense in which Paul uses "the faith" in 1 Timothy 4:1. Paul uses the term a lot in this epistle alone, not to mention throughout his inspired writings: "In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following." --1 Timothy 4:6 Here in the very same paragraph we see "the faith" mentioned. Obviously, however, we cannot be nourished on the words of our personal faith. Clearly, Paul is talking about the apostolic teachings that would make up the canon of Scripture, the "words of THE faith." We see that use of it in several places, where it would make at least as much, if not more, sense to define "the faith" as a corporate confession of faith rather than the personal belief in Jesus Christ through which we are justified : 1 Timothy 1:2,14; 3:9,13; 5:8; 6:10,21 2 Timothy 1:13; 3:8; 4:7 Titus 1:4,13; 3:15 etc. Now, I am not saying that every instance of the word "faith" refers to a corporate confession. That would be nonsense and do great damage to the gospel. However, apparently, as we do, Paul had different connotations of the word "faith," depending on whether he was referring to the commonly held doctrines of the confessing church or the personal belief through which we are individually declared righteous before a holy God. In almost every case, the "rejection" or "wandering away" is from "THE faith," not "YOUR faith." We live in an individualist society, and I think one of the consequences of that mindset is a frequent failure to recognize the intensely corporate nature of Christianity. While we are saved through our personal reliance upon the finished work of Christ, we also believe in "one Lord, one faith, one baptism." Most 21st-century Christians are strangers to the concepts of creeds and confessions, but the early church made use of them extensively and Paul quotes some of them in his epistles. I also hold that this absence of confessional Christianity has eroded our sense of a church that stands together, saying, "This we believe." Certainly there are some among us who say it without truly believing it, but the confession of the faith stands even in the face of individuals wandering from it, giving evidence of not being truly regenerate. May God bless you this day! --Joe! |
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3 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | Morant61 | 76345 | ||
Greetings Joe! As always, excellent comments my friend! May I comment on one of your points though? You wrote: "In almost every case, the "rejection" or "wandering away" is from "THE faith," not "YOUR faith."" One possible explanation of these fact could simply be that Paul is always writting to someone else, other than the ones who departed from the faith. So, he wouldn't use 'your faith' when talking to those who haven't departed! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | Reformer Joe | 76348 | ||
Tim: You wrote: "May I comment on one of your points though?" I would feel neglected if you didn't! :) "One possible explanation of these fact could simply be that Paul is always writting to someone else, other than the ones who departed from the faith. So, he wouldn't use 'your faith' when talking to those who haven't departed!" True enough, but we could substitute whatever personal pronoun you like. Other than the case of Hymenaeus and Alexander ("their faith"), I do not recall any other instances of a personal pronoun being used with "faith" when referring to apostasy. And, as I have stated before, in their case it could very well mean their previous confession of faith being shipwrecked by their blasphemy. May God's blessing be upon you today! --Joe! |
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