Results 1 - 15 of 15
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | New Creature | 75905 | ||
Their is one group that believes in "once saved, always saved" Their is another group that believes, that salvation can be forfeited I am in this second group However both groups find Bible verses to support their belief. We need to look at the entirety of God's word, not pick and choose which verses we like. Each person should personally search God's word and draw from Scripture what is actually true as the Holy Spirit guides and teaches the individual. After having personally studied this topic in depth my sentiments are as follows the "once saved, always saved" teaching is built upon partial truths presented as the whole truth. Grace Peace and Love New Creature |
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2 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | BradK | 75915 | ||
New Creature, I can only add that you have stated your opinion based upon your study. I am in the first group. You state,"the "once saved, always saved" teaching is built upon partial truths presented as the whole truth." In all fairness, could I not say the same of the "group that believes that salvation can be forfeited?" I too have studied this topic in depth. What is untrue of Romans 8:28-39? "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Simply said, we do not understand all of Gods' ways. I do however, understand His Grace well enough to know that I am secure IN HIM. Speaking The Truth In Love, BradK |
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3 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | New Creature | 76012 | ||
BradK You asked ." In all fairness, could I not say the same of the "group that believes that salvation can be forfeited?" To that I say, yes you could. Secondly you ask What is untrue of Romans 8:28-39?" "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." To that I answer all Scripture is true. Individual's intrepretation of the true meaning of Scripture is what is in question. "Certainly, one of the most commonly misunderstood passages in the Bible is Rom. 8:38,39, as commonly presented by the eternal security teachers of our day. These two often-mentioned verses say:" "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the LOVE OF GOD that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." "In quoting this passage, the eternal security adherents argue that it proves that once we are saved we are always saved; and even though "sin" isn't mentioned in Paul's list, it is understood to be included, hence no sin committed after initial salvation will condemn a person!" "there is a definite DIFFERENCE between the "LOVE" of God as mentioned in Rom. 8:38,39 and the "LIFE" of God, according to Scripture! This is easily proven by noting that UNSAVED people are LOVED by God, even though they are devoid of His LIFE! A clear case in point is the rich, young ruler who was certainly UNSAVED, yet LOVED by Jesus (Mk.10:21)!" "It must be further noted that this same unsaved man, like all unsaved people, are separated from the LIFE of God," (Eph. 4:18) but, again, not separated from His LOVE! Since one only has salvation when he has the LIFE of God, Rom. 8:38,39 does NOT assure an unconditional salvation on the basis of God's infinite love!" "Relationships are ongoing dynamic sort of things which take two (at least partially) willing persons. Someone might argue that this immoral wife still had some legal standing with her husband, but most of us would admit that a pattern of continual and repeated purposeful acts of rebellion would end the two-way-ness of the relationship." "My love might live on, but my marriage relationship would be dead." "Why does Jude 21 warn us to "keep yourselves in the love of God" if the possibility of separation from God's love is impossible?" "In John 15:10 Jesus makes the same point again by inference, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." "1. God's love IS unconditional." "There is nothing that can separate us from God's love. In fact, God's love was extended to us while we were still sinners...even while we were yet unborn! There is nothing...nothing I can do to make God quit loving me. He can't not love me. His love is both unconditional and irrevocable. And it's not based in any way whatsoever on what I do. God loves because God is love." 2. My relationship with God is conditional. "While His love is unconditional, my relationship with God is two-way. Love can be unilateral. A relationship, however, is bilateral. For instance, I could insist that nothing my wife could ever do would change my love-I love her unconditionally and irrevocably, yet a true relationship is two-way. What if she were to walk out on me, and run off with another man, totally rejecting me and everything I stood for? Would I still love her? Yes, I could love her, if my love were unconditional. But would we still have a relationship? That's another question." "A relationship is bilateral-"it takes two." Love can go one way, but a relationship is two-way. Relationships are ongoing dynamic sort of things which take two (at least partially) willing persons." "Someone might argue that this immoral wife still had some legal standing with her husband, but most of us would admit that a pattern of continual and repeated purposeful acts of rebellion would end the two-way-ness of the relationship." "My love might live on...but my marriage relationship would be dead. Relationships are not unilateral." "A continual pattern of purposeful premeditated disobedience will indeed eventually harden into an attitude of rebellion and defiance which can break off our two-way relationship with God." All the above quoted from an unknown source Grace peace and love New Creature |
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4 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | Reformer Joe | 76075 | ||
New Creature: The diffculty I have with this explanation is that it divorces these verses from the rest of the argument. Romans 38-39 is the summary conclusion of a much larger passage which more fully explains what God's love means here. It is not merely warm feelings for His creatures, but rather a preserving and protecting love for His people: 'What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED." But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. ' --Romans 8:31-39 Now how anyone can read this section of Scripture and conclude that the last two verses are merely commentary on God's emotional disposition toward us is beyond me. Paul is writing about God's preserving of His own, not about a universal love. It is shown in God who justifies and Christ who to this day intercedes for me (along with the Spirit who prays for us, earlier in Romans 8). This is love resulting in Trinitarian action toward His people that assures that those whom God justifies will be glorified (Romans 8:30), John Piper recently gave a good sermon on this: http://www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/02/090802.html --Joe! |
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5 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | New Creature | 76090 | ||
Joe One of the many questions that still needs to be answered is: "Why does Jude 21 warn us to "keep yourselves in the love of God" if the possibility of separation from God's love is impossible?" Grace Peace and Love New Creature |
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6 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | John Reformed | 76124 | ||
Dear NC The answer is found in the context of the verse. Read the entire chapter. John |
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7 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | New Creature | 76152 | ||
I have read the entire book of Jude many many times, and have even led small group Bible studies on this Epistle. Some theologians in their articles have even labeled the Epistle of Jude, The Acts of the Apostates. In Jude 3 Jude tells about how it was his intention to write to you of the common salvation, instead he felt it was more needful to write to exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the faith. In verse 4 Jude informs us that ungodly men had crept in unaware to them and were turning the grace of our God into laciviousness. Antinomianism was being taught.. Rather than do a commentary on the whole Epistle of Jude continuing to read the rest of it, one cannot help but see acts of apostasy, and the judgement of God upon those who apostasized. Beginning in verse 20 we find Jude adomonishing the believers and telling them of their responsibility to continue to build their selves up on their most holy faith and to keep theirselves in the love of God. Verse 24 speaks of God's ability to keep them from falling. I personally believe what is meant by "he is able to keep you from falling" is; those who remain surrendered and yielded unto Him, can rest assured that God's ability to keep them from falling will be the result. For those who refuse to yield themselves over to God, God's ability to keep them is still available, it's just that the individual that remains unyielded will not allow God's ability to keep them. We are not puupets. Just because we are saved does not mean we still can't make a choice to walk away from the faith and turn our back on God. That possibilty is not imagined but is real and is Scriptural as Jude and all of Scripture indicates. So how do you read it? Blessings New Creature |
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8 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | John Reformed | 76195 | ||
Dear New Creature, You wrote: "Verse 24 speaks of God's ability to keep them from falling. I personally believe what is meant by "he is able to keep you from falling" is; those who remain surrendered and yielded unto Him, can rest assured that God's ability to keep them from falling will be the result. For those who refuse to yield themselves over to God, God's ability to keep them is still available, it's just that the individual that remains unyielded will not allow God's ability to keep them. We are not puupets. Just because we are saved does not mean we still can't make a choice to walk away from the faith and turn our back on God. That possibilty is not imagined but is real and is Scriptural as Jude and all of Scripture indicates." Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints 1:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Evidently, Jude was was concerned about certain persons whom he describes as "ungodly" (Not godly; not having regard for God; disobedient to God; wicked; impious; sinful), but to those to whom he is writing, he calls "beloved". Therefore, It is obvious to the unbiased reader of this epistle that, Jude is addressing the saints about men who have "crept in unnoticed". Jude says of these ungodly men that they are" those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation". The doctrine that these reprobates hold is: they" turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."Jude did not say THAT these "ungodly" men perverted the grace of THEIR God or denied THEIR Master, He says "OUR God" and "our Master", speaking in the first person ot the God and the the Master of the "beloved". I hope you can see that my friend. Jude is quite plain and simple to understand. It only becomes complicated when we mistakenly impose our pre-concieved ideas into the text. Jude is not warning the saints about the possibility of losing their salvation. Rather, he is warning them about these ungodly men that have crept in among them. These false professors are the tares sown among the wheat. Matt 13:25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. Jude 1:5 Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. Verses 5-20 are a description of these creeping ones who steal in among the flock of God. Repeatedly he calls them "these men". Throughout this passage "these men" are describe as wicked evil doers: "gross immorality and went after strange flesh,"; "defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties."; "these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.etc. Jude 1:11 "Woe to them!" Jude 1:12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;" Notice "these men" hiding in your love feasts. Again I emphasize the unavoidable fact that Jude is writing to the "beloved" about "these men". Verse 20 begins with BUT!!! "Jude 1:20 But you, beloved..." After warning the saints and inforing them of the wickedness of "these men" and the certain punishment these men will face; he concludes the epistle by assuring and comforting the beloved saints, saying:Jude 1:24-25 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. John |
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9 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | New Creature | 76203 | ||
John I could not help but notice that your answer skipped by Jude 21. I don't know whether or not that was intentional on your part or not,and you still seem to avoiding the original question. That question was: Why are the beloved admonished to "keep yourselves in the love of God" Jude 21, if it is impossible to be separated from his love as you believe? God Bless New Creature |
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10 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | John Reformed | 76207 | ||
Jude 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. Keeping oneself in the love of God is simply the the actions we take that reinforce our knowledge and experience of God's love for His adopted children. It entails things like standing on His promises: Heb 13:5 "Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, "I WILL NEVER DESERT YOU, NOR WILL I EVER FORSAKE YOU,". John |
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11 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | New Creature | 76216 | ||
John I don't mean this to sound cruel or mean. But it appears at least to me that you are diluting the intended meaning of Jude 21. Even when you make the quotes "I WILL NEVER DESERT YOU, NOR WILL I EVER FORSAKE YOU,". That is true. But is that the whole of the matter or only the half? I believe those quotes are accurate. It's true that God will never forsake us or leave us. The other half, which some never take the time to ask is. Can the believer ever forsake Him, or leave him. I think Heb. 6:4-6 makes it absolutely clear that it is not God that forsakes or leaves us, but us, that forsake or leave God. If we are admoished to "keep ourselves in the love of God" why the warning, if the possiblity of being separated, from his love is impossible, imagined, or hypothetical as some believe? Just by simply looking at Jude 6 I could ask: were the angels who adandoned their abode, created evil? Did not God say that everything He created was good? So if it was created good by God, and was initially good, how did it become bad? I read where it was the angels who 1) did not keep their own domain 2) abandoned their proper abode, and now are reserved in bonds impending judgement. And how about the other 2/3 of the angels who did not abandon their abode? How was it that they remained in God's love and the other 1/3 did not? It wasn't God who abandoned them, they abandoned God, and they were at one time in His very presence, how much more likely is it for someone like us who have never been in His presence in the same sense as these angels to abandon the God who never Himself abandons anyone? Blessings New Creature |
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12 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | John Reformed | 76221 | ||
Dear New Creature, You ask; "And how about the other 2/3 of the angels who did not abandon their abode?" 1Ti 5:21 "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality." God's "elect" or "chosen" angels are kept in same way we are by God Himself who is "able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,". INVICTUS - WILLIAM ERNEST HENLEY Out of the night that covers me Black as the Pit from pole to pole I thank Whatever god may be for my unconquerable soul In the foul stench of circumstance, I have not winced, nor cried aloud, In the faint bludgeonings of chance, My head is Bloody but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears, Looms but the horror of the shade But the menace of the years finds, And shall find me, unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate how charged with punishments the Scroll I am the master of my Fate I am the captain of my Soul This hero of human invincibilty was an unrepentant atheist. But if you desire to place your hope for salvation in your own ability, I can't force you not to. I'm content to trust in the power of God. Perhaps I'm just one of those feeble saints that don't trust their own selves. John |
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13 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | New Creature | 76228 | ||
Are you implying now that we have become saved we have no responibilty? You probably are in agreement with the saying - "Just let go and let God" which I personally believe is unscriptural. Study the word believe in Scripture and you will see that believe is a verb in most instances, implying action. Now that we believe, we need to CONTINUE an ongoing attitude of belief. Do you believe that we should not any longer exercise our faith? Now that you are saved should we be passive in our faith? I believe we should be pro-active in our faith. We see from Matt. 7:21 that; only those which DO the will of the Father shall enter heaven. Notice the word DO. I believe that implys the genuine believer must be DOING His will. That is the difference between mere professors and those who are possessors Grace Peace and Love New Creature |
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14 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | John Reformed | 76266 | ||
Good Morning, "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish" (unless....?) John 10:28 I do no not subscribe to "let go and let God". But my faith is in Christ and not in myself. He is the author of my faith. He will finish that which He began. I am safely in the palm of His hand. I am an elect child of God. And as such, it is no longer I that live but it is Christ who lives in me. Does that make Christ a puppeteer? God forbid any such blasphemy! Some people think that if it can't be grasped by human reason it can't be true. As I said, If you cherish your independance so highly and prefer to believe that you are the master of your own fate...what can I say? The fact that it is God in me, who gives me holy desires and causes me to groan over my my sins and long for heaven does not mean I am a puppet. The good works I do are those which God prepared for me to do before I was born! It is my blessed assurance that I have a new heart. Just because I cannot explain the mystery of God's Soveriegnty and man's responsibility does'nt mean that this relationship does not exist. It is enough for me that the Bible says that is so. At least you are consistant. Many who believe that man saves himself by accepting Christ deny that they are then able to reject Him. I wonder, do you believe we will be free to rebel after we are glorified as well? Or does glorification make us into puppets or robots? John |
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15 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | New Creature | 76271 | ||
John First let me say that I respect your beliefs, even if I don't see it the same way as you do. Secondly you asked "At least you are consistant. Many who believe that man saves himself by accepting Christ deny that they are then able to reject Him. I wonder, do you believe we will be free to rebel after we are glorified as well? Or does glorification make us into puppets or robots?" I don't believe that those who enter glorification will rebel. I can't say as whether or not that freedom will have been removed at that time. I do know that nothing that defiles will be allowed to enter the kingdom of heaven. And I do read of the 1/3 of the angels that were at one time in His very presence which seemingly had the freedom to remain faithful or rebel. What I disagree with you is your view of election, of angels or individuals. "If you desire a brief statement on my view of election the following quotes I found are quotes that I tend to agree with. "As stated earlier, we believe that soteriological election is corporate and not particular. [For two thorough studies on this see The New Chosen People and Elect in the Son.] Jesus Christ and those "in Christ" (i.e. the Church) are the elect. Also, in the Bible, God’s foreknowledge always precedes His choosing. We think that exegetically this means exactly what it says, to know before the fact (i.e. foreseen faith). It never signifies, intrinsically, to predetermine, or to love, or to favor beforehand; but always to foreknow or prerecognize. [See the word study on this and other key words in God’s Strategy in Human History.] And to know something either in advance or after the fact is clearly not the cause of its happening (i.e. believing in or rejecting Christ). In Romans 8:28-30, it is not the purpose of the apostle to show or declare the surety of any particular individual’s passing through the stages of this scheme, but to show the indestructible and absolute surety of the scheme itself. The ark in Noah’s day was unconditionally predestined to outride the deluge, but it depended upon each person’s choosing to enter and remain within the ark as to whether he or she would be saved." (source unknown) Finally concerning relationships - My belief is that they are bi-lateral, not unilateral. He in me, and I in Him, (John15)there is an interconnectedness in this personal relationship which we have with our Risen Lord Jesus Christ. Grace Peace and Love New Creature |
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