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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | jelkins | 129797 | ||
How do you regard the salvation of the thief on the cross, who was not baptized? The thief on the cross lived under the Law of Moses, as did Jesus. At the time of the crucifixion, the kingdom had not come, the church had not been established, the New Covenant wasn’t effective. At that time Jesus had not given the command to be baptized. As evidenced in Matt 9, Jesus had the power while he was alive to forgive sins and, by inference, to give entrance to Paradise to the thief – through his word alone. After his death and resurrection, he still has the power, again through his word, but bound by the pattern/form/requirements of His last will and testament, the New Covenant. (Following text copied from BibleGateway.com, NKJ V.) Topic of discussion as found in Luke. Luke 23:39Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us." 40But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." 42Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." 43And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." Command to be baptized into Christ’s death for remission of sins came later, after Jesus’ death, before his ascension.. (See Mark 16, also) Mat 28 18And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go therefore[3] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. Only after Christ’s death was the new law binding. Heb 9 16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Jesus’ mode of operation while he was alive. Matt 9 5For which is easier, to say, "Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, "Arise and walk'? 6But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins"--then He said to the paralytic, "Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house." I was well into adulthood when someone pointed these things out to me with loving persistence, even though I was a reluctant listener. I’m grateful they cared enough. To know when the church was established (Acts 2) has made all the difference in the world in understanding scripture. May God bless the reading of His Word. J. Elkins |
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2 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | kalos | 132872 | ||
II. Is baptism needed for salvation? "In Acts 2:38, Peter appears to link forgiveness of sins to baptism. But there are at least two plausible interpretations of this verse that do not connect forgiveness of sin with baptism. It is possible to translate the Greek preposition eis "because of," or "on the basis of," instead of "for." It is used in that sense in Matthew 3:11; 12:41; and Luke 11:32. It is also possible to take the clause "and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" as parenthetical. Support for that interpretation comes from that fact that "repent" and "your" are plural, while "be baptized" is singular, thus setting it off from the rest of the sentence. If that interpretation is correct, the verse would read "Repent (and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ) for the forgiveness of your sins." Forgiveness is thus connected with repentance, not baptism, in keeping with the consistent teaching of the New Testament (cf. Luke 24:47; John 3:18; Acts 5:31; 10:43; 13:38; 26:18; Ephesians 5:26). "Mark 16:16, a verse often quoted to prove baptism is necessary for salvation, is actually a proof of the opposite. Notice that the basis for condemnation in that verse is not the failure to be baptized, but only the failure to believe. Baptism is mentioned in the first part of the verse because it was the outward symbol that always accompanied the inward belief. I might also mention that many textual scholars think it unlikely that vv. 9-20 are an authentic part of Mark's gospel. We can't discuss here all the textual evidence that has caused many New Testament scholars to reject the passage. But you can find a thorough discussion in Bruce Metzger, et al., A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, pp. 122-128, and William Hendriksen, The Gospel of Mark, pp. 682-687. "Water baptism does not seem to be what Peter has in view in 1 Peter 3:21. The English word "baptism" is simply a transliteration of the Greek word baptizo, which means "to immerse." Baptizo does not always refer to water baptism in the New Testament (cf. Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; 7:4; 10:38-39; Luke 3:16; 11:38; 12:50; John 1:33; Acts 1:5; 11:16; 1 Corinthians 10:2; 12:13). Peter is not talking about immersion in water, as the phrase "not the removal of dirt from the flesh" indicates. He is referring to immersion in Christ's death and resurrection through "an appeal to God for a good conscience," or repentance. "I also do not believe water baptism is in view in Romans 6 or Galatians 3. I see in those passages a reference to the baptism in the Holy Spirit (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:13). For a detailed exposition of those passages, I refer you to my commentaries on Galatians and Romans, or the tapes of my sermons on Galatians 3 and Romans 6. "In Acts 22:16, Paul recounts the words of Ananias to him following his experience on the Damascus road: "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name." It is best to connect the phrase "wash away your sins" with "calling on His name." If we connect it with "be baptized," the Greek participle epikalesamenos ("calling") would have no antecedent. Paul's sins were washed away not by baptism, but by calling on His name. "Baptism is certainly important, and required of every believer. However, the New Testament does not teach that baptism is necessary for salvation." (http://www.gty.org/IssuesandAnswers/archive/baptism.htm) |
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3 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | Country Girl | 132877 | ||
Have you ever thought about...Why is there so much controversy on this subject? Good, conscientious, serious Bible students like you and me and all the others have studied this subject quite literally all our lives. I've read your profile so you and I are about the same age and yet we have such divergent views on this subject. To me, it seems like the devil is laughing his head off and enjoying all the strife and turmoil on this subject and all the many other controversies since the start of the apostacy. In spite of it all AND knowing this apostacy was coming, our Lord prayed for unity and for His children, us, you and me to agree on these kinds of matters. How sad? How truly very sad? Such good, devoted Bible students can't come to agreement on this rather simple subject IMO. Someone posts a question and I respond with my interpretation or you beat me to it and respond with yours. And the devil makes out like a bandit. How truly sad? I can only continue to encourage everyone reading this to study the whole Bible and make a decision that you can defend on Judgment Day because we'll be judged by ALL the words we read therein. Blessings to all who study and obey God's Word. Country Girl |
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4 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | Morant61 | 132879 | ||
Greetings Country Girl! I agree that the Devil is probably laughing his head off, but for a different reason. He is laughing because so many in the Church have been led astray from grace to works. That's why this topic is so important. Instead of relying of God's grace, we have many trying to 'earn' salvation by the things they do - in clear violation of Scripture. I believe that we will be judged if we don't speak the truth about this issue. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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