Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | jelkins | 129797 | ||
How do you regard the salvation of the thief on the cross, who was not baptized? The thief on the cross lived under the Law of Moses, as did Jesus. At the time of the crucifixion, the kingdom had not come, the church had not been established, the New Covenant wasn’t effective. At that time Jesus had not given the command to be baptized. As evidenced in Matt 9, Jesus had the power while he was alive to forgive sins and, by inference, to give entrance to Paradise to the thief – through his word alone. After his death and resurrection, he still has the power, again through his word, but bound by the pattern/form/requirements of His last will and testament, the New Covenant. (Following text copied from BibleGateway.com, NKJ V.) Topic of discussion as found in Luke. Luke 23:39Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us." 40But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." 42Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." 43And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." Command to be baptized into Christ’s death for remission of sins came later, after Jesus’ death, before his ascension.. (See Mark 16, also) Mat 28 18And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go therefore[3] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. Only after Christ’s death was the new law binding. Heb 9 16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Jesus’ mode of operation while he was alive. Matt 9 5For which is easier, to say, "Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, "Arise and walk'? 6But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins"--then He said to the paralytic, "Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house." I was well into adulthood when someone pointed these things out to me with loving persistence, even though I was a reluctant listener. I’m grateful they cared enough. To know when the church was established (Acts 2) has made all the difference in the world in understanding scripture. May God bless the reading of His Word. J. Elkins |
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2 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | kalos | 132871 | ||
I. Is baptism needed for salvation? Is baptism necessary for salvation? "No. Let's examine what the Scriptures teach on this issue: "First, it is quite clear from such passages as Acts 15 and Romans 4 that no external act is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by divine grace through faith alone (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9, etc.). "If baptism were necessary for salvation, we would expect to find it stressed whenever the gospel is presented in Scripture. That is not the case, however. Peter mentioned baptism in his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38). However, in his sermon from Solomon's portico in the Temple (Acts 3:12-26), Peter makes no reference to baptism, but links forgiveness of sin to repentance (3:19). If baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sin, why didn't Peter say so in Acts 3? "Paul never made baptism any part of his gospel presentations. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul gives a concise summary of the gospel message he preached. There is no mention of baptism. In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul states that "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel," thus clearly differentiating the gospel from baptism. That is difficult to understand if baptism is necessary for salvation. If baptism were part of the gospel itself, necessary for salvation, what good would it have done Paul to preach the gospel, but not baptize? No one would have been saved. Paul clearly understood baptism to be separate from the gospel, and hence in no way efficacious for salvation. "Perhaps the most convincing refutation of the view that baptism is necessary for salvation are those who were saved apart from baptism. We have no record of the apostles' being baptized, yet Jesus pronounced them clean of their sins (John 15:3--note that the Word of God, not baptism, is what cleansed them). The penitent woman (Luke 7:37-50), the paralytic man (Matthew 9:2), and the publican (Luke 18:13-14) also experienced forgiveness of sins apart from baptism. "The Bible also gives us an example of people who were saved before being baptized. In Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and those with him were converted through Peter's message. That they were saved before being baptized is evident from their reception of the Holy Spirit (v. 44) and the gifts of the Spirit (v. 46) before their baptism. Indeed, it is the fact that they had received the Holy Spirit (and hence were saved) that led Peter to baptize them (cf. v. 47). "One of the basic principles of biblical interpretation is the analogia scriptura, the analogy of Scripture. In other words, we must compare Scripture with Scripture in order to understand its full and proper sense. And since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, any interpretation of a specific passage that contradicts the general teaching of the Bible is to be rejected. Since the general teaching of the Bible is, as we have seen, that baptism and other forms of ritual are not necessary for salvation, no individual passage could teach otherwise. Thus we must look for interpretations of those passages that will be in harmony with the general teaching of Scripture. With that in mind, let's look briefly at some passages that appear to teach that baptism is required for salvation." (http://www.gty.org/IssuesandAnswers/archive/baptism.htm) |
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3 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | jelkins | 133350 | ||
Sorry to be slow Kalos. It took me a while to look up and study all the scripture references you gave. (I couldn’t find “IssuesandAnswers” on the Grace to You web site) You (and others) ask, “If baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sin, why didn't Peter say so in Acts 3?” I say, if God inspired Luke to write that Peter said baptism was for remission of sins in the first recorded gospel sermon – the baseline, if you please (Acts 2:38), perhaps He didn’t see a need for Luke to keep on repeating it. The truth of it had already been established . Please tell me how you explain away the fact that the only time in scripture “faith alone” is alluded to, the text says, “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only” (James 2). And, please give reasons James would have said, not once but three times, that “faith without works is dead.” My own interpretation is that the righteous works which God requires of his believers are different from “the works of the law” [of Moses]. Compare Eph 2:9 with Eph 2:10. You say, “Paul never made baptism any part of his gospel presentations.” But, when Luke records Paul’s words about his own conversion, he said that baptism was to wash away his sins. Your explanation about Acts 22:16 doesn’t work for me. Much more logical to think the washing was done in the waters of “baptism” rather than in the “calling.” I think this verse is a good example of “calling on the name of the Lord” (doing something by His authority – as we might say, “STOP! In the name of the law!). You say, “Paul states that ‘Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel,’ thus clearly differentiating the gospel from baptism.” I ask, aren’t you comparing apples and oranges? There is nothing in this text that indicates that baptism for remission of sins is not a part of the gospel preached, only that Paul didn’t do much of the baptizing. The reason is given in 1 Cor 1:15, “Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name,” and thus lend to the divisions among the brethren. In your Note 1, sixth paragraph, all the examples you give of Jesus forgiving sins happened before his death; before baptism into his death became a requirement for salvation. (Rom 6, Heb 9) There is nothing in the text of scripture that indicates the baptism of the Holy Spirit was for salvation of the Apostles or of Cornelius, et al. It was to furnish the power to usher in the Kingdom of God, to the Jew first, then to the Gentile. I agree wholehearted with these comments of yours: “One of the basic principles of biblical interpretation is the analogia scriptura, the analogy of Scripture. In other words, we must compare Scripture with Scripture in order to understand its full and proper sense. And since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, any interpretation of a specific passage that contradicts the general teaching of the Bible is to be rejected. …Thus we must look for interpretations of those passages that will be in harmony with the general teaching of Scripture.” However, I do not agree with your comment, “Since the general teaching of the Bible is, as we have seen, that baptism and other forms of ritual are not necessary for salvation, no individual passage could teach otherwise.” I see the “general teaching” in Matt 28, establishing Christ’s authority and His command to be baptized, and in Acts 2:38, the first time God’s plan of salvation is presented by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles after the resurrection and ascension of Christ. All other interpretations must be in harmony with that. Not too difficult, if you are careful to weed out the “doctrines and commandments of men” that abound in the religious world today. |
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4 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | kalos | 133362 | ||
Jelkins: Since I first posted the article "Is baptism necessary for salvation?" by John MacArthur, the Grace to You website has been updated and re-designed. The article (which I merely quoted and did not write) can now be found by doing the following: Go to: www.gty.org Click on: "BIBLE FAQs" Scroll down the page to: "Salvation "Understanding True Salvation" Click on: "Is baptism necessary for salvation?" Grace to you, Kalos |
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