Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Jeff W | 140797 | ||
Hello, Ephesians 2:8-9 "For but grace ye are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast." This is the reason sanctification and conversion are the most perverted doctrines. I have asked many many people what this means, and many of them have no idea. To say we are saved by grace does not mean we are free to break the law, it does not mean that we do not have to obey, it does not mean we just have to sit around and hope that we slide into heaven "safe" just under the wire, because what is stated in verse 10 gives us a great obligation, which is also a condition to the promise of being "saved" by grace. "We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. . ." Good works are essential to salvation. Jesus commission to His disciples "Go ye therefore". The bible is all about action, and to even say that "I'm 'saved' by grace" leaves a message in my mind that works are out of the question. I know we are saved by grace but what does that mean? God Bless you Jeff W |
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2 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Morant61 | 140810 | ||
Greetings Jeff! "Saved by grace through faith" simply (if one can use such a word for such a great doctrine) means that our salvation is accomplished by God's grace, not by our works and that this grace is accessed by faith. It does not mean that we can continue to sin, but neither does it mean that our actions play any role in our salvation whatsoever. :-) Good words are a result of salvation, not a contributing factor for salvation. I'm still not clear about your point concerning 'conversion' and 'sanctification'. I have never heard anybody teach these in such a way that they mean that it is okay for a Christian to sin. Could your clarify your point? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Jeff W | 140882 | ||
Hello Tim I have had the priviledge to study with many people with many diverse opinions about doctrine, and one of the most widely used excuses for not having to obey is: "there's none righteous" so we don't need obedience. I have been to many different denominational discourses, and there are whole denominations that believe something similar to this. Another one is: "the law was 'nailed to the cross'", so we don't have to obey it, and they use Colossians 2:14 which is way out of context for their erroneous views. To say we don't need obedience for salvation is cutting it close there Tim. The book of James, which BTW Martin Luther wanted to remove it from sacred scripture, gives us some statements that sound pretty contradictory to all of Paul's writings, but while we are in Christ He gives us great understanding about what Paul writes in Romans 3:20 and Galatians 2:16 compared to James 2:21-24. I believe that we are not "saved" by our works but we can sure be lost without them. God Bless you Jeff W |
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4 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Morant61 | 140889 | ||
Greetings Jeff! Allow me to demonstrate my point my friend! Here in Evansville, IN, there was a car lot which was advertising 'free tires for life' if one bought a car from them. The government forced them to pull those ads because the tires weren't really 'free' if one had to buy a car to get them! :-) In the same way, salvation isn't really a 'gift' if one has to earn it by being good enough. If one says, 'I'm not saved by works, but works will keep me saved', one is really saying, 'I'm saved by works'. The trick is to understand the proper place of works. I have never said that obedience is not important. But, I have said that obedience is a result of salvation, not a cause of salvation. If I were to see someone who claimed to be a Christian continually living in sin, I would say that the person was not actually a Christian because a Christian will not live continually in sin. As far as James 2 is concerned, I have posted many times about this chapter. My short answer is this: James does not contradict Paul. Many simply do not understand what James is saying. James is not saying that works saved us, but that works demonstrate the reality of our salvation. If you want to read these posts, simply enter go to the search button on the left and enter 'Morant61' in the id field and 'James' and 'works' in the keywords field. p.s. - Welcome to the forum! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Jeff W | 140947 | ||
Hello' I tend to take what the bible states literally on many issues, except prophecy of course. And when James states that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only, well I believe what he wrote through inspiration before I would hear some modern day commentary. Primitive Godliness is what we desperately need today, but I will probably get an arguement about that too, like almost all my posts into this forum. I can't believe how someone can twist what someone else states and make it say the complete opposite. I am not accusing anyone, but we all must have the love of Jesus in order to get along, and if we cannot agree, and get along here how can we be together in the hereafter? Even when I totally agree with what someone states I get an argument. This is not 1 Cor 1:10 God Bless you Jeff W |
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6 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Morant61 | 140948 | ||
Greetings Jeff! You wrote: "Even when I totally agree with what someone states I get an argument. This is not 1 Cor 1:10" I hope you are not thinking of me my friend! I thought that we have been having a very civil discussion. :-) You also wrote: "And when James states that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only, well I believe what he wrote through inspiration before I would hear some modern day commentary." I believe that you are referring to James 1:24, "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." The first clue that there is something wrong here is that this appears to be a direct contradiction to what Paul says in Romans 4. There, Paul quite clearly makes the case that Abraham was not justified by works, because if he was justified by works than salvation cannot be by faith. Now, we can simply ignore one or the other, but there is a very simple solution to our problem. The word 'justified' in James 2:24 is a word that can mean either 'to declare righteous' or 'to show to be righteous'. The verse will mean two totally different things depending upon which translation one chooses. If one takes the first translation, James 2:24 is saying that one is justfied by works and faith. If one takes the second translation, James 2:24 is saying that one is 'shown' to be righteous by one's works. The latter option is best for several reasons. 1) It is in full agreement with Paul's other statements in Scripture. 2) It fits the context of James 2 better, where James is arguing that faith is demonstrated by one's works. Check out James 2:18 for instance. James is not arguing about how one gets saved, but about the evidence of one's salvation. His opponents in James 2 were trying to argue that they could be saved and have no works at all. Now, is there any evidence that Scripture ever uses the 'shown to be righteous' definition? Yes, there is! This same verb is used of God in Rom. 3:4, "Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: 'So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.'" Does God need to be justified? Can He be justifiedd? He does not need, nor can He be justified in the sense of being saved from sin, but He certainly can be 'justified' in the sense of 'showing that He is justified'. In the case of Rom. 3:4, the verb clearly means that God is demonstrated to be true when He speaks. In the same sense, the verb is used by James to speak of one being 'shown to be justified' by the works that spring from one's salvation, not being 'saved' by works. Happy New Year my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Mommapbs | 140949 | ||
Happy New Year Tim - I really enjoyed this post. "Shown to be righteous" is a great solution to this "contradiction" in Scripture. If a believer was involved in gross sinful behavior, would anyone believe that he was "justified?" How might we also use this portion of scripture in this situation? Blessings, mommapbs |
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8 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Morant61 | 140950 | ||
Greetings Mommapbs! Thanks for the kind words! :-) I'm not sure I understand your last question! Could you clarify? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Mommapbs | 140952 | ||
Hi Tim - Clarification: If it by our works (actions) one is "shown" to be justified, then what does a believer's sin show? I see this verse as an encouragement to be mindful of our testimony of our redemption to others. Comments? What prompted this is my struggle with a staff member's un-Christlike behavior in full view of non-believers. The event was unsolicited,meaning I wasn't "watching" for this individual to "slip up." Hence I perceived it at the time as a God-directed observation - it really grieved me to watch and has caused me to question why God showed this to me. Right now I have a greater understanding how un holy actions of one member of the body can negatively affect others! As a teacher, I am in a position to edify w/o fingerpointing. I really don't want to be a Nathan to this individual, but I will be obedient if God directs me specifically here. (I suspect that the individual is unaware of the offending behavior as this is not the first time it has ocurred, but it was the first time I SAW it.) Any suggestions or encouragement for me here? In Christ mommapbs |
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10 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Morant61 | 140953 | ||
Greetings Mommapbs! Thanks for the clarification! This is a tough call! :-) It really depends upon the individual's attitude toward correction. I know that I would like to know if I were doing something that was dishonoring to Christ, but not everyone accepts correction well. I would certainly pray about and also consider if this were an aberration or a normal occurance. It is was an aberration, I might just let it slide. If not, I might gently approach the person and ask him/her if he would be open to some gentle correction! :-) Whoops! I just saw that you said it was not the first time! :-) Your Brother in Christ, |
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11 | WHERE are they taken? | Luke 17:36 | Mommapbs | 140955 | ||
Thanks Tim for your counsel! I can trust God's leading . . . as for correction, indeed it is a tough call. I'm not sure this individual is open or able to accept correction (from me personally)but God is more than able to accomplish His discipline with or without my intervention - I can't ignore the position He has allowed me to be placed in though . . . I know He'll make His will very clear to me here. Blessings! | ||||||