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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Where is Luke 16:19ff called a parable? | Luke 16:23 | Morant61 | 86524 | ||
Greetings Phil! Thanks for your response my friend! Allow me to touch upon your points in order of ease! :-) 1) Moses: Jude 9 does not say that Moses was raised. That word, or any form of it, never occurs in the verse. So, I'm not sure where you are getting this from. 2) Samuel: I have posted before on the state of those prior to the resurrection of Christ. Samuel, and all those who died before Christ, were in Sheol/Hades. The only point we differ on is whether or not they were conscious during this time. I beleive that Scripture says that they were conscious. 1 Sam. 28 is one strand of evidence that those who have died are still conscious in Hades. If Scripture says that "Samuel said", the I take it at face value that it was actually Samuel who said it. So, since Scripture does not say that it was a demon, I don't accept that position. 3) Sleep: This one is simple my friend. All languages use euphemisms. That is all I believe Scripture means when it says that someone 'sleeps' or 'slept with his father's'. I don't believe that this can be stretched to mean that they are unconsious. Allow me to touch upon each verse that you cite. a) 1 Kings 2:10 - 'Slept' is Strong's number 7901. It can mean to lie down, to rest, to relax, to lodge, to lie down (as in death), to lie down (as in sexual relations). Notice that this verse describe David's death, not his status after death. b) 1 Kings 11:21 - Same as above. c) 1 Kings 11:43 - Same as above. d) 1 Kings 14:20 - Same as above. e) 1 Kings 14:31 - Same as above. f) Mt. 27:52 - 'Slept' is Strongs number 2837 "koimao". It can refer to literal sleep as in Mt. 28:13, figuratively to death as here. g) 1 Cor. 15:20 - Same as above. h) Deut. 31:16 - Same as the above OT verses. i) 2 Samuel 7:12 - Same as the above OT verses. j) Ps. 13:3 - 'Sleep' is Strong's number 3462 and has pretty much the same meaning as the above. k) Dan. 12:2 - Strong's number 3462. My point is simply this: each of these words has as their primary meaning 'literal sleep'. They can then be used to describe the body of the person who has died. They appear to be sleeping. They appear to be relaxed. They appear to be resting. But, it is a euphemism, not a description of the status of their spirit after death. In fact, nothing is said about their spirits at all. However, passages like 1 Sam. 28, Luke 16:19ff, and others, do talk about the status of those who have died. According to these passage, they were conscious. If all of these other verses did not exist, I could see where your position might make sense. However, these other verses do exist. So, I take the term 'sleep' in the way that most people do - just like I would terms like (broken hearted, sunrise, downcast, ect...). These terms, and others like them, are not intended as scientific descriptions, but as poetic language used to express certain meanings. As I said, if these other passages did not exist, I could go with you on this point. But, Luke 16:19ff is not called a parable anywhere. Therefore, when Jesus said that it happened, I believe it. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran 3) |
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2 | Where is Luke 16:19ff called a parable? | Luke 16:23 | BibleStudent74 | 86526 | ||
Why whisk this away as a euphemism and not the entire story of the Rich Man and Lazarus as symbolic? My point in referring you to Samuel is that there is a controversy over this being Samuel or not. If it is indeed Samuel, then God is not the only one who can raise the dead. It would appear that this is a contradiction and the bible is false. If it is not Samuel, then who or what else can it be other than a deception or demon. Conscious or not in sheol/hades/grave is moot if it was indeed Samuel because the bible has contradicted itself in that Satan, the witch of Endor or whomever you choose to say, raised up Samuel from the grave. If sleep is a euphemism for death, then why did Jesus say to his disciples that Lazarus our friend sleepeth? Why did he not just tell them from the outstretch that Lazarus is dead? Your brother in Christ, Phil |
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3 | Where is Luke 16:19ff called a parable? | Luke 16:23 | Morant61 | 86532 | ||
Greetings Phil! Concerning Jesus, why use euphemisms at all? They are word pictures, but they are never necessary. :-) Why use figures of speech? Why use poetry? Concerning Samuel, the passage never actually says that the medium brought Samuel up, but it does call the spirit Samuel. So, I take it at face value that it was Samuel. Obviously, only God can raise the dead, so God must have brought Samuel's spirit back for a reason. This is borne out by the message the Samuel delivers from God to Saul. So, I would say that the apparent contradiction is based upon an assumption, not upon the text itself. Concerning Luke 16:19ff, euphemisms are one or two inoffensive words used as substitutes for another word. They are not parables! ;-) So, Luke 16:19ff by definition cannot be a euphemism and it is never called a parable. So, I take it as literal. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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