Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is perfected for all time? | Matt 7:24 | McGracer | 54115 | ||
Joe, You wrote: "It does sound illogical. Doesn't it make more sense to say that we are in the process of becoming what God has declared us to be IN CHRIST?" Certainly it sounds illogical. It is illogical for me to be born dead in trespasses and sins. It is illogical that Christ would be punished for my sins. It is illogical that I, who deserve nothing but eternal separation from God get eternal life instead. Yet it is grace. This is not sarcasm, bro, but where do you see that we are DECLARED to be anything? Can you show me a verse in the NASB from the NT that says that God DECLARES us as anything? I understand the theological definition of justification to be "declared righteous in God's sight." The problem is that definition isn't found in the scripture is it, not as we interpret it anyway. What do I mean? When we say that God declares us as being righteous, we are saying that although we are truly righteous, God pretends to see us that way. This is a falsehood. Why? Because that would be like a judge having mercy on a criminal, saying to him, "I declare that you are righteous," and then releasing him. The criminal would not be righteous, he would simply be forgiven. Justice was not met in this case. The judge simply declared something that was not true. In our case, the judge (God) declares us righteous because we ARE righteous. Why? Because Christ was made sin on our behalf. When did this happen? At the cross. God does not DECLARE something that is not there. God first GIVES US the righteousness of Jesus Christ. There is an exchange. He took ALL of my sin. I get ALL of His righteousness. Now, at justification, when God declares me righteous, justice has been served. Christ took my death. I get His life. He took my sins. I have His righteousness. Therefore, God DECLARES me righteous because I am. For any just judge to declare a criminal righteous, that criminal must be either truly innocent or someone but bear the punishment. To insist that we are not the righteousness of Christ, insists that He did not take our sins. The problem with typical justification interpretation is that folks say, "God declared me righteous and now I am going to earn what I've been declared." This is backwards from the Christ-life. Grace living says, "God has made me righteous in spirit, I am going to live out what He has made me and let it become my experience. You wrote: "Did my comments on Paul saying you and I WERE justified in Romans 8 (written 1900 years ago) not make sense? I would like to hear your comments on why the Holy Spirit moved Paul to write that God justified us at a point when we hadn't been born yet." Because, as I have already said, in God's realm (not bound by time or space) things just ARE. Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. That's illogical, is it not? We are already seated with Christ in the heavenlies. That's quite illogical because I'm sitting here typing. So we have to decide whether we are going to believe in a God who may seem, from our viewpoint, illogical or whether we will just take Him at His Word. You may not agree with my viewpoint, but as long as you understand it, you can see why I say that many Christians are still wandering in the wilderness. The promised land is a place of rest. It is resting in Christ's finished work. God has already blessed us with EVERY spiritual blessing in the heavenly places (where we are also seated) in Christ. There is nothing more that we need except to believe it and learn to grow into what we already are. An apple does not become more of an apple as it matures. It simply grows into what it already is. McGracer |
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2 | What is perfected for all time? | Matt 7:24 | kalos | 54223 | ||
Holman Christian Standard Bible Ro 3:26 He presented Him to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and *declare* righteous the one who has faith in Jesus. Ro 5:1 Therefore, since we have been *declared* righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Ro 5:9 Much more then, since we have now been *declared* righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath. (Emphasis added.) |
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3 | Are the declared righteous righteous? | Matt 7:24 | McGracer | 54226 | ||
If a judge declares you to be righteous, and gives you someone else's righteousness as your own, are you righteous from that point on? McGracer |
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4 | Are the declared righteous righteous? | Matt 7:24 | kalos | 54234 | ||
Your original questions were: "...where do you see that we are DECLARED to be anything? Can you show me a verse . . . from the NT that says that God DECLARES us as anything?" Again you asked: "Where does the NT say that the NT believer is DECLARED righteous? . . . Where does the NT say that we, who are indwelt by the living Jesus Christ are DECLARED anything?" I answered your questions by quoting Romans 3:26; 5:1; and 5:9 from the Holman Christian Standard Bible. Now that I have answered your original question(s), you change the subject, as well as your question. Nice try. |
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5 | Are the declared righteous righteous? | Matt 7:24 | McGracer | 54245 | ||
Please see my primary question concerning "declared" righteousness. The Holman Christian Standard Bible takes the liberty of defining the term for itself, much like the NIV defines "sarx" as sinful nature (although "sinful" nor "nature" is not in the greek whatsoever). Non-literal translations do this so that they can put forth there own "theology". For instance, if I decide that justification means "to pretend that someone is righteous", I can then translate like so: Ro 3:26 He presented Him to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and pretend that the one who has faith in Jesus is righteous also. Ro 5:1 Therefore, since God is pretending that we are righteous, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Ro 5:9 Much more then, since we are pretending to be righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath. And this is exactly what theologians mean when they say that we are declared righteous. They say that God says it is so, but it isn't so. Isn't His Word truth? McGracer |
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6 | Are the declared righteous righteous? | Matt 7:24 | kalos | 54249 | ||
The *King James Version* (Authorized) Romans 3:26 To *declare*, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. *AMPLIFIED* Romans 5:1 THEREFORE, SINCE we are justified (acquitted, *declared* righteous, and given a right standing with God) through faith, let us [grasp the fact that we] have [the peace of reconciliation to hold and to enjoy] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One). (Emphasis added.) |
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