Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Forgiveness - part 3 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Morant61 | 16552 | ||
Greetings Bill! Again, excellent posts my friend! I would only make two points to this post! 1) Under your explanation, the statement of Mt. 6:14-15 would not have mattered even before the death of Christ. Why? Because, forgiveness of sins was obtained through the sin sacrifice, not through forgiving others. So, what part did forgiveness of others play in our forgiveness. 2) Forgiveness can still be conditional. The reason I say this is because, like you I assume, I believe in an unlimited atonement. All sins, past, present, and future, of every man, woman, and child, were atoned for at the cross. We only received the benefit of that forgiveness when we accept Christ. A case could be made that we could also cease to abide in Christ and remove ourselves from God's forgiveness. I appreciate your effort in this post. And yes, I know the reason for the hope within us both! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Forgiveness - part 3 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16569 | ||
Tim, one small note. You said, 'Because, forgiveness of sins was obtained through the sin sacrifice, not through forgiving others. So, what part did forgiveness of others play in our forgiveness.' Even under the New Covenant, with Christ as the once for all sacrifice, not everyone has received that forgiveness. Yes, I believe in unlimited propitiation :), but I belive that forgiveness is PROVIDED for at the cross and RECEIVED at conversion. Why? Because forgiveness in the NT is only found IN CHRIST. Similarly, the OT sacrifices PROVIDED for forgiveness but, is it possible (see my other post here) that it was only received by faith? Forgiveness of others would play a part here, as I have stated concerning Matt 5:23,24. |
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3 | Forgiveness - part 3 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Morant61 | 16595 | ||
Greetings Bill! One thing is for sure, Mt. 6:14-15 is not an easy passage no matter how one looks at it! :-) I guess what I was asking is, what role would these verse play in either case since forgiveness is provided through sacrifice in the case of the Old Testament and through Christ in the New Testament. Even if we push it back, we still have the same problem interpreting it since it would seem to "add" some requirement for forgiveness. Good posts! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Forgiveness - part 3 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16601 | ||
Tim, see my response to part 2. Even under OT sacrifice, I don't feel that God just forgave because the offering was made. I noted in my response that God wanted Saul's obedience not sacrifice. And also the OT mentions where God says that His is sick of the sacrifices because people were just going through the motions (aren't you glad WE no longer do that?). I don't think that if the offering was offered with out repenting that God did honor the sacrifice. I.e. if you came to God with your bull or goat and still had unforgiveness in your heart, I don't feel the God was OBLIGATED to accept the offering. So I am not nullifying this scripture at all. I am saying that, under the New Covenant where forgiveness is based on GRACE (remember that word :)) God forgives on based, not on what we do or don't do, but upon the finished work of His Son, Jesus Christ. I won't 'convert' you (that's God's job) :) In Him, Bill Mc |
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