Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16301 | ||
Steve, yes, this verse is not in effect after the cross. In the same way that OT animal sacrifices are not in effect after the cross. I am not cutting any verse out. Because I believe in Christ's once-for-all sacrifice does not mean that I cut out the Old Testament. But there is a reason that God gave us the New Testament. I don't believe that the Spirit of God will ever leave me. Does that mean that I cut out where David said, "Don't take Your Spirit from me." No. I don't cut it out. But I do recognize that there is a distinction in the covenants and that I, as a New Testament believer would not pray that prayer. In Him, Bill Mc |
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2 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | userdoe220 | 16325 | ||
Do you mean to tell me that Jesus' teachings are not in effect for belivers today? The very term, Christian, implies that we are followers of the teachings of Christ! How can you, or any other person, say that Jesus' teachings do not apply to the N.T. believer? I only have one comment for post, "Please put away your darby handbook." |
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3 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16335 | ||
Dear schwartzkm, not all of Jesus' teaching are in effect for believers today. Consider Luke 14:33 - "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions." Jesus was calling for disciples to literally give up ALL their possessions to follow Him. He demonstrated this with His own 12 disciples. Peter and John left their nets and followed Him. Matthew left his tax collecting. If you are going to interpret this literally for the 'modern' Christian, are you going to give up or sell ALL your possessions? This is what Jesus taught, is it not? Or, as stated elsewhere, what about Matthew 10:5,6 -These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." This was a COMMAND of Christ to His disciples. Are we, as His disciples, to follow this command? Doesn't the great commision supercede this? We must use DISCERNMENT in studying the scriptures. And we must use proper translation techniques with ultimate reliance on the Holy Spirit to take the things of God and make them known to us. Blessings in Christ, Bill Mc |
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4 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | userdoe220 | 16348 | ||
First, I disagree and feel that this passage in Luke does apply to believers today. What is Luke trying to tell his reader, Theopholus, about the teachings of Jesus? Luke is trying to emphasize one point in this passage: Life as a disciple of Jesus will not necessarily be easy. Being a disciple of Jesus will cost you and you need to sit down and determine weather it is worth it before you go down this road (boy did it ever. Luke wrote this book around 60-62 AD. In 64 AD the Christians were officially removed from the umbrella of Judaism and made to participate in Emperor worship. Christians refused and were martyred for their faith in droves.) What Jesus was emphasizing was being a disciple of Jesus would/will cost you! You will notice that this specific demand, to sell everything, was not given to everyone even in Jesus’ own ministry. There were many people Jesus interacted with (Nicodemus. The women at the Well. Centurian) during his lifetime and He never made this specific demand of them. This demand was made specifically to this group of people however; the principle of sacrifice applies to all of Jesus’ disciples. The Universal cost of discipleship is still the same—it does not come without a price. Just so happens that the demand for these individuals was monetary sacrifice. Others might be persecution to various degrees…Still other martyrdom. Following Christ usually comes at some cost (I am not saying salvation is earned. So don’t try to red herring). My cost was small considering others who had gone before me in the faith. That is the thrust of Jesus’ teach in this passage. And yes, the principle does apply to us as N.T. believers. Matthew simply records the historical progression of Jesus’ mission in the world. His first emphasis was to go to the Jews and then the Gentiles would be included later (sounds like an O.T. prophecy to me.). The great commission did not do away with Jesus’ mission, just expanded it to include other nations as well. Yes, we must use discernment when studying the scriptures. It is a shame when we are so “discerning” that we nullify the teachings of Jesus. I am considered a Christian because I follow the teachings of Christ. If you believe that Christ’s teachings don’t apply to us and Paul’s do, what do you consider yourself? A Paulian. |
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5 | I do agree with most of your post, but.. | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16362 | ||
Dear schwartkm, I agree with most of your post. But I am not a Paulian. I am a Christian. The same Jesus that walked the face of the earth appeared to Paul and reveal the gospel to him. The same Spirit that indwelt Christ indwelt Paul to the extent that Paul said, "I no longer live, but Christ lives in me." And I am in no way trying to nullify all the teachings of Christ. But, as even you have stated, there is a progressive revelation in scripture. Why do you think Peter was so relunctant to hang out with the Gentiles. The disciples were amazed that the Gentiles could come to God through Christ. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I disagree with your definition of a Christian. Please hear me out on this. A Christian is not one who follows the teachings of Christ. It is much deeper than our futile attempts to mimic the Son of God. No one has EVER completely followed the teachings of Christ. Christ said, "Be perfect. How perfect? As perfect as your Father in heaven." Has anyone 'followed' this teaching? I think not. God's standard is perfection, our attempts to follow are insufficient. By that definition, Christians are those who follow the teachings of Christ, we are never completely Christians for none of us can do it perfectly. A Christian is one who has Christ living IN THEM - Romans 8:9-11. This is the essence of Christianity, Christ IN you, the hope of glory. Merely trying to follow Christ's teachings is not true Christianity because our 'trying' will always fall short. Being a Christian is a change of identity. It is anologous to a caterpillar changing into a butterfly. No matter how hard the caterpillar reads the flight manuals or follows the butterfly's teaching, he cannot do what the butterfly does (fly) because his nature is still a caterpillar. He can try to fly all he wants but he will always fall short. But, through a miracle, the caterpillar is changed into a butterfly. Only then can he do what butterflies are designed to do. Until we see that we are, indeed, new creations in Christ, we will be forever trying to follow the teachings of our Lord and failing. When we do come to realize that 'old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new', Christ Spirit inside us will fulfill God's own requirements through us. He who began a good work in you WILL BE faithful to complete it. It is God at work IN you to do His will. Please don't take this as a rebuke, schwartkm. It is not intended that way. It is intended as a clarification of the truth that you stated. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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6 | I do agree with most of your post, but.. | Matt 6:14 | userdoe220 | 16368 | ||
I also agree with a number of things you are saying in your post. I believe that without the aid of the Holy Spirit it is impossible to live up to His standards for our life. Also, because we are human beings we can never live up to God's standard. However, that still does not mean I cannot be called a Christian by my definition. Lets analyze your argument for a moment. 1.) A Christian is a follower of the teaching of Christ. 2.) You cannot fullfuill all the teachings of Christ Therefore, you cannot be called a Christian by your definition. Here is what I believe is the problem with your argument. Isn't one of the teachings of Christ an admission that we are not perfect? In fact, Jesus provides provission for this imperfection in the Lord's prayer. Matt 6:9-13 9In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. 11Give us this day our daily bread. 12And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. 13And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. So, when we sin and ask God to forgive us, we are 'following the teachings of Christ'. No where does the term, Christian, as used in the N.T. and elsewhere imply perfection. It just means those who adhere/follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Lets look at the Etymology of the term, Christian. Believers were called Christians First in Antioch. Why? Did the locals have some keen insight into caterpillars and butterflys and how that links to the born-again expereince? No. They were called Christians first because they followed the teachings of Christ (Acts 11:25-26). They noticed that they acted differently from others. "The word Christians occurs in the NT only here, in Acts 26:28, and in 1 Peter 4:16. The word is formed with the Latin suffix which designates "follower or partisan of" (cf. "Herodians" in Mark 3:6). There is no adequate reason to think that the term was used in derision. It simply means people who follow Christ." from The Wycliffe Bible Commentary.) christianos NT:5546, "Christian," a word formed after the Roman style, signifying an adherent of Jesus, was first applied to such by the Gentiles and is found in Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words How did they know they followed Christ? By their actions. It is the only logical thing that makes sense. I use the term, Christian, as an adverb--It modifies the persons actions--It does not mean perfection. I hope that clarifies how I use the term, Christian. |
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7 | I do agree with most of your post, but.. | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16372 | ||
Thanks for your clarification. Christians DO live differently. Thanks for your Etymology (sounds like a medical procedure :)) We disagree on the forgiveness issue though. I believe it is a done deal. Christ prayed this prayer BEFORE He provided total forgiveness for sins at the cross. And that's OK if we disagree (on my side anyway). I just take issue with the 'forgive or God won't forgive you' view. See Eph 4:32; Col 3:13. Thanks again. Blessings in Christ, Bill Mc |
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8 | I do agree with most of your post, but.. | Matt 6:14 | userdoe220 | 16374 | ||
Well, on my previous post I hope I clarified that issue. I must have missed some posts somwhere and thought you felt that Christians don't have to forgive...So, we both got some good Bible study lessons and were really coming at the same truth from different angles: If a Christian chooses not to forgive, there will be consequences. It is not a salvation issue, but a rewards issue. | ||||||