Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Was Mary a virgin her whole life | Matt 1:25 | jawz | 47499 | ||
Many quote Matthew 1:25 as clearly stating that Joseph and Mary had sexual relations after Jesus was born. In fact it states the opposite. The greek word "eos" does not translate simply as "until" in English but is used in a perfect continuous form which makes it an unbound condition, not tied to the event of Jesus birth. As a stark example look at the text of 2 Samuel 6:23 "As to Michal daughter of Saul, she had no child till the day of her death."(YLT) We clearly understand that Michal's not having children is not tied to the event of her death, she did not suddenly start having children after she died. (I quoted Youngs literal translation because most do not translate "eos" as "till"). The structure of Matthew 1:25 is the same as that of 2 Samuel 6:23 and there are numerous other passages that use the same unbound expression of the greek "eos". If you read them with the same English grammar interpretation "until" in Matthew 1:25 they make no sense. Regarding other passages where Jesus brothers and sisters are referred to, remember that very few people were privvy to the knowledge that Mary had conceived by the Holy Spirit so all who were acquainted with Mary and Joseph would have considered Jesus as Joseph's son. If Joseph had other children (he may have been a widower) or if Mary and Joseph had nephews and nieces then they would have quite rightly called Jesus their brother they would not have called him anything else. Now if Joseph's other children were by Mary then Jesus would have been the eldest and as such would have had considerable influence over his younger siblings, especially after the death of Joseph. Yet what do we read about Jesus' brothers; John 7:5 "For even his own brothers did not believe in him." It is hard to believe that if they were also the children of Mary that she would not have explained to them the extraordinary circumstances of Jesus' birth, nor that they would not believe that which their oldest brother, the head of their household, told them. Also, as Emmaus pointed out with John 19:26-27, if Mary had other children then there would have been no need for Jesus to place his mother under John's care. The simple fact of the matter is that Mary had no other children Finally, I would ask you to put yourselves in the shoes of Joseph and ask yourselves as God fearing people, would any of you even consider having sexual relations with the woman who bore the Son of God? Would you even dare to presume to put your seed in the same womb which God himself had chosen to bear the Saviour of mankind? Within Mary's womb had grown the most holy Son of God become man. On Mary's breast was sustained the creator and sustainer of all life. Her body became a sacred temple. The very thought of someone having sexual relations with the one who had been so intimately connected to Christ simply fills me with horror. |
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2 | Was Mary a virgin her whole life | Matt 1:25 | Hank | 47510 | ||
Jawz, your reasoning is flawed because it is weighted down with assumptions and speculations, subjective opinions and idle guesswork, the chief of which is contained in your statement, "The very thought of someone having sexual relations with the one who has been so intimately connected to Christ simply fills me with horror." While you are being filled with horror, consider this: The bond of husband and wife is the most sacred bond there is on earth. Marriage was instituted by God Himself, sanctioned by His Son, and the physical union of a man and his wife is undefiled. "A man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Gen. 2:24). And so it has ever been, that the sanctity of marriage has been held in the highest regard, because God instituted it. Matthew 1 makes it abundantly clear exactly what happened. When Joseph, Mary's betrothed, learned that she was with child, he was of the mind to put her away, i.e., divorce her secretly. But an angel of the Lord intervened, saying "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (v.20). Please note that the messenger from the Lord did NOT add, "But you are commanded never to have sexual relations with your wife and she is never to bear you children." So Joseph did what the angel of the Lord commanded him and took Mary as his wife and...and...and did not know her (have sexual relations with her) TILL she had brought forth her firstbon Son. And he called His name Jesus. (cf. Matt. 1:24,25). Your "translation" of this passage goes against every reliable translation that exists in English. You are also reaching far out to assume that Joseph had a housefull of kids by a former union. You have gone to great assumptive lengths in your post, but you have proved nothing. We all of us would find the going much easier if we were willing to read the Bible in the plain sense of what it says and not work ourselves into a tizzy trying to make it say what it clearly doesn't say. --Hank | ||||||
3 | Did Mary and Joseph marry? | Matt 1:25 | jawz | 47712 | ||
Hank, you make a big deal about marriage here, but I must ask you this; Where in the NT does it say that Joseph and Mary were married? It says they were betrothed, but nowhere does it say they progressed beyond this stage. The traditional understanding is that a betrothal gives a couple all the responsibilities of marriage, but none of the privileges. Once betrothed, one can only break the betrothal with a divorce. Nevertheless, the couple were not permitted to have marital relations until after the marriage ceremony. | ||||||
4 | Did Mary and Joseph marry? | Matt 1:25 | Hank | 47733 | ||
Jawz, you say I make a big deal about the marriage of Joseph and Mary, and then you proceed in a lame effort to 'prove' they were never married, only betrothed. You ask, "Where in the NT does it say that Joseph and Mary were married?".... Matthew 1:24,25: "Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife. And he did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called his name Jesus.".... We have clear evidence [Luke 2:39ff) that 12 years later Joseph and Mary were still together. Isn't this rather a long time for a betrothal? Jawz, I don't know what else you are looking for to show that Mary was indeed Joseph's wife -- a certified copy of their marriage certificate perhaps? Was Eve Adam's wife? Was Sarah Abraham's? Perhaps, since we don't have certified copies of their marriage certificates either, we should conclude that neither Adam and Eve nor Abraham and Sarah were ever married. That's exactly where your line of reasoning would take us.--Hank | ||||||
5 | Christ born out of wedlock? | Matt 1:25 | Amber_G | 47735 | ||
Jawz- If Mary and Joseph were not married when Christ was born, according to Roman Catholic doctrine, wouldn't that make Him illigitimate? God invented marriage as a blessing for us and the only way in which we should produce children. God never contradicts Himself and He never changes. He would have never allowed Christ to have been born to this world outside the bonds of marriage...true legal marriage, not bethrothal. To do so would contradict His supreme and divine nature. |
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6 | Christ born out of wedlock? | Matt 1:25 | Searcher56 | 47747 | ||
Scripture ... Isa 7:14, Mat 1:23, Luk 1:35 ... Greetings Amber_G, Jesus was not illegitimate. While Mary was pregnant before she got married, there was no intercourse. The power of the Most High overshadowed her (Luk 1:35). She was a virgin when she gave birth (Isa 7:14, Mat 1:23). Jesus was not illegitimate. Hope this helps, Searcher |
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7 | Christ born out of wedlock? | Matt 1:25 | Amber_G | 47750 | ||
Searcher- No, I realize that Mary was pregnant before she married. If you read Jawz's earlier post, he claimed that from scripture, we do not know for sure that Joseph and Mary were ever really "married" but that they were only bethrothed for the duration of life together, and used this "fact" to support the misguided idea that Mary and Joseph never had sex after Christ was born and that Mary bore no other children. My statement was made to show that God would never contradict Himself by allowing His only Son to be born out of the bonds of legal and spiritual marriage. |
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8 | Christ born out of wedlock? | Matt 1:25 | jawz | 47950 | ||
Betrothal was legally binding. It was marriage with all the responsibilities and none of the privileges. | ||||||