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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | TheCurtMan | 88240 | ||
Good Morning Truthfinder I have the info. you requested. 'All the Divine Names and Titles in the Bible', by Herbert Lockyer. Published by Zondervan Publishing House Grand Rapids, Michigan. Pg. 5, under, 'The Names and Titles of God the Father', par. 3, "In the beginning God-Gen. 1:1-as well as in the other references, the name is in the plural, and is a foregleam of the trinity acting in Unity. Ex. 20:11; Col. 1:16; and Job 26:13. God 'plural' said let us make man in our image. Gen. 1:26. Just outta curiosity, who was God talking to when He said, "let US make man in our image"?? Also, you might want to try looking at The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, Vol. 1, by Moody Press. It says this, "...a better reason can be seen in Scripture itself where , in the very first chapter of Gen, the necessity of a term conveying both the unity of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found. It goes on futher to say this, "The New Testament does not teach one God who acted in three modes, modalism, but one divine being who exists in three persons who are co-equal and co-eternal.The main point is that the Bible clearly declares one God in three persons all of whom are God. Note what Paul said about Jesus, and remember, this was not easy for him, as he was a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee. He wrote of Jesus, "looking for the blessed hope ad the appearing of the golry of our great God AND Savior, Christ Jesus." |
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2 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88274 | ||
Hi The Curtman, "Let us make man in our image". Jehovah is speaking to Jesus. (Col. 1:15)I already addressed this issue. Certainly the word elohim is in the plural. But as you know I wanted to know what Lexicon or Hebrew authority has defined "elohim" as you did, "plurality in unity". You quoted the editors of the NIV (known trinitarians)as saying the plural form denotes foregleams of the trinity. All I can say to that is absolute nonsense. You can not ignore as I said earlier that this word is used in the same way for individual pagan divinities, such as Dagon (1 Samuel 5:7) and Marduk (Daniel 1:2), who were not triune gods. Commenting on this, Oxford scholar R. B. Girdlestone writes in his Synonyms of the Old Testament: “Many critics, however, of unimpeachable [Trinitarian] orthodoxy, think it wiser to rest where such divines as Cajetan [a theologian] in the Church of Rome and Calvin among Protestants were content to stand, and to take the plural form as a plural of majesty.” Such Trinitarian theologians doubtless realized that if they took ‘Elo·him´ as a numerical plural (gods), they would become polytheists! Summing up on so-called Old Testament proofs of the Trinity, the Protestant Cyclopædia by M’Clintock and Strong states: “Thus it appears that none of the passages cited from the Old Test[ament] in proof of the Trinity are conclusive . . . We do not find in the Old Test[ament] clear or decided proof upon this subject.” Truthfinder |
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3 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88275 | ||
Hmmm, I don't know how I did that. At any rate,you quoted Titus 2:13 when you wrote, Note what Paul said about Jesus, and remember, this was not easy for him, as he was a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee. He wrote of Jesus, "looking for the blessed hope ad the appearing of the golry of our great God AND Savior, Christ Jesus." I ask why was this not easy for him, as you say he "was" a Pharisee (past tense). Just curious. Anyway, you may or may not know that many Bible translators have rendered the last part of the verse you mentioned as you did as if it meant only one person, Jesus. For example, An American Translation says: “. . . the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus.” Such translators often claim that this sort of rendering conforms to a “rule” of Greek grammar. Yet you must come to the conclusion that the Trinity doctrine also inclines them toward such a translation. A literal translation of the Greek phrase is, “glory of the great God and Saviour of us Christ Jesus.” (The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, by Dr. Alfred Marshall) Observe that there is a single article (the) preceding two nouns (God, Savior) that are joined by the conjunction “and.” Over a century ago, Granville Sharp formulated what is supposed to be a “rule” applying in such constructions. It asserts that, since the article (the) is not repeated before the second noun (Savior), the two nouns refer to the same person or subject. This would mean that “great God” and “Savior” would both be descriptive of Jesus, as if the meaning were ‘of Jesus Christ, the great God and our Savior.’ Persons inclined to believe in the deity of Jesus sometimes give the impression that the above position is demanded by proper Greek grammar. But that is not so. In fact, the validity of the “rule” being applied in Titus has been much debated by scholars. For example, Dr. Henry Alford (The Greek Testament, Vol. III) says: “No one disputes that it may mean that which they have interpreted it” as meaning, but he adds that one needs rather to determine ‘what the words do mean.’ And that cannot be settled by grammatical rules. A Grammar of New Testament Greek (Moulton-Turner, 1963) states about Titus 2:13: “The repetition of the art[icle] was not strictly necessary to ensure that the items be considered separately.” What, though, about ‘Sharp’s rule’? Dr. Nigel Turner admits: “Unfortunately, at this period of Greek we cannot be sure that such a rule is really decisive.” (Grammatical Insights into the New Testament, 1965) As to the Greek construction used, Professor Alexander Buttmann points out: “It will probably never be possible, either in reference to profane literature or to the N[ew] T[estament], to bring down to rigid rules which have no exception, . . . ”—A Grammar of the New Testament Greek. In The Expositor’s Greek Testament, Dr. N. J. D. White observes: “The grammatical argument . . . is too slender to bear much weight, especially when we take into consideration not only the general neglect of the article in these epistles but the omission of it before” ‘Savior’ in 1 Timothy 1:1; 4:10. And Dr. Alford stresses that in other passages where Paul uses expressions like “God our Savior” he definitely does not mean Jesus, for “the Father and the Son are most plainly distinguished from one another.” (1 Tim. 1:1; 2:3-5) This agrees with the overall teaching of the Bible that Jesus is a created Son who is not equal to his Father.—John 14:28; 1 Cor. 11:3. Thus, Dr. White concludes: ‘On the whole, then, we decide in favour of the rendering of this passage, appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.’ A number of modern translations agree. In the main text or in footnotes they render Titus 2:13 as speaking of two distinct persons, “the great God” who is Jehovah, and his Son, “our Savior, Christ Jesus,” both of whom have glory. (Luke 9:26; 2 Tim. 1:10) See The New American Bible, The Authentic New Testament, The Jerusalem Bible (footnote) and the translations by J. B. Phillips, James Moffatt and Charles K. Williams. Truthfinder |
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