Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60065 | ||
May the Good Lord bless you Ed, You wrote: "No John it does not. I believe God gives each man and woman this opportunity or spiritual awareness at least once in his or her life. I think what that person then does at that moment determines whether they then accept Jesus as Lord and Savior or not. As I said this is all a mystery to me." The problem is, and I know you agree, there is no teaching in Scripture that will support the idea that carnal people experience moments of spiritual understanding whereby they may take advantage of, or reject, Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Your statement above is scripturaly unsupportable. 1 Cor 2: 14 as well as many other verses teach just the opposite. A few verses later Paul says: 1 Cor 1:18 "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." Notice the tense of the verbs perish and save. They indicate that there are those who are in the process of "perishing" and others who are in the process of being "saved". I understand the difficulty that those who disagree (as I did at one time) have with the doctrine of Election. They feel it makes God to appear unjust. But that is not the case. We all fell in Adam, did we not? We are all equally guilty and deserving of eternal damnation. Would it have been unjust for God to save none? No! It would have been just. Is it then unjust for Him to extend mercy to some and not others? Afterall, He is King and judge over all and is free to do as He wishes (See Romans 9). He is the Potter and we are the clay. In His wisdom He has permitted the reprobate to continue to do what they want, which is to sin and rebel against Him. He does not force them to sin, it is the nature of fallen man to be wicked. Others He mercifully chose for Himself and paid a tremendous price for their salvation. Remember, God owed none of us anything. The mystery of election is why did God save anyone, especiallly me! Brother Ed, can you offer any scripture to support your contention that their is no contradiction between 1 Cor 2:14 and Rom 8:29,30 if one adheres to "freewillism"? John |
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2 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 60130 | ||
John I sincerely do not want to replow the same ground again but yes God says here he offers salvation to all. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. I know you say the “all” means all that are elected but I can not accept that. Again your right we were all condemned by sin. But God so love the world, not just the elect, that He sent his only begotten son that whosoever, not just the chosen, believes in Him would have eternal life. I know you will claim the “all” means all that are chosen but the word seems to imply all not just the chosen. Howeve I think the evidence is overpowering Jesus did in fact die for all. There are those that reject that and I beleive God gave them the right/freewill to do so. But I beleive Jesus did die for ALL not just the chosen. Acts 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. Romans 11:32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. 1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 2 Cor. 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. 1 Tim. 2:3-6 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; I have two questions for you. Why is so important to you that only the elect be saved, what difference would it make in your theology if all were given an opportunity for salvation but also the right to accept or reject it? That election, predestined, and such simply meant God knew from creation who would reject Christ. Second question a young boy not “chosen” hears about hell and develops a mortal fear of going there, would a loving God never give him a means to escape? Oh my drag the plow out her we go!! EdB |
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3 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60225 | ||
Part 1 Hi Ed, We must not grow weary old friend. Besides plowing is good exercise. Well for starters you did not answer my question directly, but overlooked the texts in question and went to 9 other verses that I had not asked about. But if you are not inclined to answer, I won't press you. I would like to offer answer to your questions however. You wrote: "Why is so important to you that only the elect be saved, what difference would it make in your theology if all were given an opportunity for salvation but also the right to accept or reject it? That election, predestined, and such simply meant God knew from creation who would reject Christ." Q1. "Why is so important to you that only the elect be saved, " The elect are identified in the Bible as those who are being saved. Matt 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short". Matt 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect". Matt 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." |
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4 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 60234 | ||
John I did address your question. I showed where God said He desire none to perish so the verses you referenced can't just be talking about the elect. I then gave 9 oops make that 8 verses that salvation is open to all that will believe, who then become the elect. I believe it happens thus Spiritual awareness Belief or rejection Salvation for those that believe, damnation for those that don't believe. Adoption into the family you become one of the elect. EdB |
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5 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60243 | ||
Dear Ed You said: I believe it happens thus Spiritual awareness Belief or rejection Salvation for those that believe, damnation for those that don't believe. Adoption into the family you become one of the elect. OK, so spiritual awareness, according to your theology, comes to everyone. That would mean that a natural man, at least for a time, can appraise spiritual things. He now can understand the gospel message. Can you explain to me what Paul meant when he said: "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." (1 Cor 2:14) Ed, please give me scripture that says we are all given at least a moment of spiritual enlightenment. John John |
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6 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | justme | 60300 | ||
John: If you don't mind me tossing a verse into the Forum, how about John 1:9."There was the true Light which coming into the world. elightens every man." Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood though what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Actually verses 18 to 23 give a better total picture of that there is no way for anyone to say I did not know. I am not speaking for Ed, but I could not resist adding to your dialogue. So thanks for allowing my input. chairo, justme |
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7 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60394 | ||
Hello Justme, John 3:19-21 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." Rom 1:21 "For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened" The verses you cited do not address my primary concern, which is to reconcile 1 Cor 2:14 with salvation. On it's face it seems to say that the gospel (which must be spiritualy appraised) cannot be understood by spiritualy dead people. How has God provided salvation under these circumstances? I am asking for a sripturaly supported answer. Thanks, John |
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8 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | justme | 60395 | ||
John: Sorry John those verses are exactly what I use when put to a challange. So far no one has not agreed with them. But if you find what you are looking for I sure would like to know what it was. Have you considered writing a 4 John? :-) chairo, justme |
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9 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60398 | ||
Justme, I have no desire (thank God) to add one jot or tittle to that which is perfect. I am interested however at arriving at the truth that is already contained within in the covers of the Bible. As you probably realize, there are some very tough nuts of wisdom in the Word and cracking open the shell to enjoy the fruit requires excertion. Of course without Divine enlightenment we would starve, but I believe the means God uses at times involves the sweat of our brows. Bible trivia may be fun but real knowledge generally requires labor. I enjoy working with others. So, If you would care to roll up your sleeves and join in ...you would be more than welcome. Your Brother, John |
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10 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | justme | 60401 | ||
John: You got my help! I will keep my eyes open and maybe we will bing sweet fruit that comes with the study of Gods wonderful Word. Thank you for asking! chairo, justme |
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11 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60403 | ||
Dear Justme, To give you an idea as where I am going with this line of reasoning I will tell you where I am at on this question. I believe that the only way a natural man can recieve and properly appraise spiritual things is by being made a new creature and being endowed by God with the mind of Christ. Once this has taken place, his blind eyes are opened and understands his sinfulness and pleads to Jesus for salvation. In other words: Salvation is totally of God. John |
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