Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How do we know that we are truly saved? | 1 John 3:24 | Ray | 145200 | ||
Hi Angel, The word "controls" in the NASB for 2 Corinthians 5:14 is not a good choice. Looking at the Greek tonight, I think that the idea of the verse is that "the love of Christ holds us together" as believers in the One who died for us and for whom we now live. The idea of other passages like Romans 8 are that we are "led" by the Spirit of God. We have to be in control of our own thoughts. Romans 8:6 says that "the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace." And in comparison, verse 13 says that "if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live." 1) Another comparison I make in the Romans passage are between verses 9 and 15. You have said that you agree with a lower case spirit for verse 9. How about verse 15? Romans 8:9, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the *spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God/ dwells in you..." Romans 8:15, "For you have not received a spirit of slavery, leading to fear again, but you have received a *spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba, Father!/" 2 Corinthians 5:4, "...who gave to us the *spirit as a pledge." 2) I see 2 Cor 5:4 as a match with the other two verses. But let me tell you why I choose the lower case "spirit". I do not see the Person, the Spirit [sic] as a pledge, a down payment, a promise, or as a sealant. He is equal with the other Persons. He is another Helper. Again, I distinguish between the gift and the Giver. The word "gave" in 2 Cor 1:22 signals to my mind that this is the gift of spirit as a pledge or down payment. It is for this reason that I go with a version like Green's Literal Translation which has the Giver translated in the verse. 2 Corinthians 1:21, "But He confirming us and anointing us with you in Christ (is) God, 22 even He having sealed us, and having given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts." Green has a capitalized Spirit (I would say spirit) but what I agree with is the "He" that he has included in his translation. So here I would see the Giver, He having sealed us; and the gift, the down payment or earnest of the spirit in our hearts. 3) 2 Cor 1:22, "**He also sealed us and gave us the *spirit in our hearts as a pledge." John 3:34, "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for **He gives the *spirit without measure." That's how I see it. From the heart, Ray |
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2 | How do we know that we are truly saved? | 1 John 3:24 | kalos | 145520 | ||
"Hebrew and Greek words can be translated in more than one way. Those familiar with Biblical languages know that many phrases have several meanings. Therefore, it is a risky thing to suggest the translators have erred. In most cases such objections reflect the shortsightedness of the critics, or else his or her lack of understanding either the original or host languages. It is one thing to offer another possible translation and another to state that a translation is in error. More times than not, the one who is mistaken is the critic." ____________________ Crowned With Glory: The Bible from Ancient Text to Authorized Version by Dr. Thomas Holland (http://members.aol.com/DrTHolland/Chapter9.html ) Grace to you, Kalos |
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3 | How do we know that we are truly saved? | 1 John 3:24 | Ray | 145550 | ||
Hi Kalos, I sense that the love of Christ is not in control in our dealings with each other. May God have mercy on us all. Romans 11:32, "For God has shut up all in disobedience that **He might show mercy to all." 2 Corinthians 5:14, NKJ, "For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge this: that if **One died for all, therefore all died." Although God has grouped us all together as sinners, I trust that the love of Christ can bind us together as believers in the One who died for us and shows us mercy. From the heart, Ray |
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4 | How do we know that we are truly saved? | 1 John 3:24 | Hank | 145560 | ||
Ray ::: It is impossible for me to see what direct role "the love of Christ" plays in an honest disagreement between two men on how a word should be translated. Do you not feel it more noble to address the issue itself instead of resorting to innuendo bordering on ad hominem about "the love of Christ," which seems to be loading the issue with extraneous baggage. Sorry, Ray, but I must be honest: your post to Kalos strikes me as being well below your normative standards. --Hank | ||||||
5 | How do we know that we are truly saved? | 1 John 3:24 | Ray | 145573 | ||
Hi Hank, You are right. The post was below my standards. I guess I wanted to show that we are not necessarily "controlled" by Christ. I, too, am a sinner and bound over to disobedience like everyone else. I, too can express an unloving attitude. Yet, in contrast, I expressed the fact that the love of Christ binds us together. The post was not absent of content for addressing the disagreement between us. Romans 11:32 has "shut up all" which is #4788 from 4862 and 2808, to shut together. 2 Corinthians 5:14 has "compels", #4912 from 4862 and 2192, to hold together. Both words are from #4862, with, together with. So my point is that we are shut up TOGETHER in sin (there is none righteous, not one), and we are bound TOGETHER in the love of Christ. 1) You have to understand that this discussion of "control", especially by the Holy Spirit, has been going on for four years, since my beginning days on the forum. I have tried to tell Kalos, "Hey, we have got to talk" for some time now. I thought it was time we cleared the air again. From the heart, Ray |
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