Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | biblicalman | 228737 | ||
Hi Tim, You ask : 1) Slaves or not: You seem to take the position that believers have two natures. Allow me to ask a question. What determines which nature we will follow? My reply: No I think we have one sinful nature. I usually avoid the term nature as everything depende upon the definition, and few can even come close to defining it. I used the term sinful nature because it was in the verse I was dealing with. We have, of course, a human nature tainted by sin. Thus it is a sinful nature. But what determines our actions is a mix of body, soul and spirit. It is the 'I' who am responsible for what I do, whether I follow the sin that dwells within me (Romans 7.20), in some cases spoken of as 'the flesh' (Galatians 5.16 ff.), or whether I follow my renewed mind ((Romans 7.22, 23 25) and spirit, with the aid of the Holy Spirit. You ask: 2) To sin or not to sin: Do we just reckon ourselves as dead to sin, or are we really dead to sin? My reply: That is a slightly loaded question. I do not believe either. In Christ we are dead to sin, for when He died we, who have been made one body in Him, died also. But my body did not die. It is typing this answer. And my body is indwelt by the tyrant sin. So no, I as I am in myself am not dead to sin. As I am in Christ, however, I am dead to sin. Thus I have to reckon on myself as dead to sin because I died in Christ's body. But we must not stop there for I also rose with Christ. Thus I have within me the risen Christ and the Holy Sprit (and also the Father), and they have wrought within so that I am a 'new creature'. My spirit has been renewed. No longer am I totally enslaved by sin. The Triune God at work within me provides the means and power by which I can defeat the tyrant sin which dwells within me, by being active through my spirit and renewed mind. But my flesh, the taint of sin within my body, still struggles within me to gain the mastery. Let me ask a question in return. If someone is really dead to sin how can they ever sin again? That would mean that they were not really dead to sin. Note that I do not say you. I do not know what you believe on that issue. Best wishes. |
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2 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228743 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! A couple of questions had sprung to mind, but in fairness, I'll address your question first. In my response, I'm not reflecting on your position but simply trying to articulate how I came to my position. First of all, I always try to start with the clear statements of Scripture, not the less clear, or even my own experience. So, I begin with Rom 6:2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? This is a clear statement. In fact, our death to sin is compared and contrasted with Christ's death on the cross. When, I get to Rom. 8:11, I don't take 'reckon' or 'consider' as simply pretending that we are dead, but as a logical recognition of what Christ has done for us. So, to answer your question. I think that we all would agree that Adam and Eve were not created with a sin nature, nor were they slaves to sin in any sense of the word. Yet, they sinned. So, I would argue that someone who is no longer a slave to sin can still choose to sin. This addresses two important truths in Scriptures. One, that we truly are dead to sin. Two, that we can still sin. Well, I have to get ready for work. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | biblicalman | 228744 | ||
Hi Tim You say: First of all, I always try to start with the clear statements of Scripture, not the less clear, or even my own experience. So, I begin with Rom 6:2 'By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?' This is a clear statement. In fact, our death to sin is compared and contrasted with Christ's death on the cross. My reply: But I do not see this as 'a clear statement'. It immediately raises the question, how have I died to sin? What is certainly true is that it does not mean that we do not sin, for our whole lives are involved in sin. To sin is to come short of the glory of God, and 2 Cor 3.18 makes clear that our progress towards the glory of God is a continuous one. Thus we are all 'sinning' by coming short of it. We are told to love God with ALL our heart, soul, mind and strength, but we all fall short of that in our daily lives. It is in our sinful state impossible of achievement. Thus we are all continually coming short of Christlikeness, for He did love God with heart, sould, mind and strength. Consider how Jesus would rise 'a great while before day' in order to be in communion with His Father because He loved Him so. But He did not expect it of His disciples. He was fully aware that they still came far short of loving the Father as He did. Thus we, like the disciples, are all sinning. Do you not think that they should ALL have been arising a great while before day? Thus we must ask, what does it mean to die to sin? And the answer lies in both what has been said before, (that we have 'died to sin' because Christ died for our sins, and we died in Him) and in what he subsequently says, that we are 'drenched into His death', that we are 'united with Him in His death'. We have been made one body with Him (1 Cor 12.12-13). In consequence His death was our death. And sin can therefore no longer condemn us because in Him we have died and paid the penalty of sin. That is real, not pretence. But it does not mean that sin within us is therefore dead. We are not restored to the innocence of Adam. Our death is in no way 'contrasted' with Christ's death, nor is it 'compared' with it. Christ's death IS our death. It is because He died that we can consider (not pretend) that we have died to sin. Paul's logic is based on what has caused our justification, what has caused our being accounted as righteous in Christ. But if there is one thing that is abundantly clear, we are all still in a state of sin (that is, are still continuaslly sinning) which is why we come short of the glory of God, and is why we do not all the time love God as we should. It was because Paul knew that many of his listeners would be saying, 'but my experience is not like that. I am not dead to sin. I am very conscious of sin, Does that mean that I am not a Christian', that Paul called on his own experience in Rom 7.14-25 so as to make clear to them that all Christians, even Paul, still had sin dwelling within them. He did not articulate what those sins were because he wanted his words to apply to the condition of each of his hearers. He wanted them to be assured that, even though they might still be struggling against sin, it did not mean that they were not Christians. And he wanted them to know that there was also a way by which they could overcome their known sins through the activity of the Spirit of Christ. But be assured that all of us without exception, would, if God suddenly made Himself vividly known to us, fall on our faces in despair at our sinfulness (Job 42.5-6; Isaiah 6.5). That is one thing that happens in time of revival, a facing up to sin as never before. Indeed it would be unbearable were it not for the fact that Christ having died for us, and we having died in Him, we have assurance of forgiveness and being accounted as righteous, even though we are not. You say: When, I get to Rom. 8:11, I don't take 'reckon' or 'consider' as simply pretending that we are dead, but as a logical recognition of what Christ has done for us. My reply: Nor do any of us. We reckon on it as a fact that we are dead to sin and alive to God THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. But we do not reckon on the fact that sin is dead. We must be constantly alert to it. Best wishes |
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4 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228745 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! I have been doing a lot of reading on this topic, and I'm trying to picture it in some way that would make it as easy as possible to understand. How is this for a start? There are three distinct situations that a human being can find themselves in (with the focus on the believer primarily). 1) Unregenerate 2) Regenerate 3) Glorified The first and third states are basically perfect states in that as unregenerate beings we cannot please God, while as glorified beings we cannot displease God. The second state is a conjunction of the "already/not yet" that we struggle with as Christians. We are new creations as a regenerate person. We are not the same as before. We have been set free from the slavery to sin, yet we can still choose to sin. This is where I believe the 'dead to sin' comes into play. We really are dead to sin in that it's dominion over us is broken. Yet, we still live in a human body that exists in a fallen world. As long as we walk in the Spirit, we will not sin. But, the moment we get our eyes off of Christ, we begin to act like the world again. These are just some initial thoughts as I work through these passages. Have a great day! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | DocTrinsograce | 228746 | ||
Dear Pastor Tim, Your post was one of the more cogent ways I have heard this teaching expressed. I think, however, that it is not so much that the glorified believer "cannot displease God" but rather, in full restoration, he will not displease God. Obedience is the purest form of love. Nonetheless, the assertion "As long as we walk in the Spirit, we will not sin." Still requires a definition of sin. Even using Wesley's narrow definition -- i.e., a willful departure from the law of God -- is problematic. Take the Great and First Commandment: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." (Matthew 22:37b). If you just stop with that one commandment, have you ever known someone whose entire being was driven solely by the love of the Lord? Our Lord Jesus Christ certainly did. Who else has simply lived that single commandment perfectly? Consequently, I think we will continue to fail to see completely eye-to-eye on whether the pursuit of holiness can become a walk of holiness this side of the glory. In Him, Doc |
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