Results 1 - 4 of 4
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228601 | ||
Tim I come from a Arminian background but always considered Rom 7 and 1 John 1:8-10 or even up to including 1 John 2:2 as more or less proof that we can't live totally sinless. I further understand this to explain why Jesus is our eternal high priest that makes intercession for us today. If Christian could and do live sinless lives all they would need is perfect sacrifice for their sins. Then once they are cleansed they would have no further need of an intercessor, since there would be nothing to intercede for. one might say this is a process and it is doing the process of sanctification (if you will) that we still need an intercessor. However the passage in 2 Cor 5:17 doesn't say the process is on going but rather complete and finished when we are born again. Many want to say scripture assures a believer of freedom brought on by his sin nature and we are only exposed to sin from outside temptation brought on by the adversary. However 1 John 2:15-17 tell us believers to turn from the things of this world. Specifically naming them, Lust of the Flesh, Lust of the Eyes and Pride of Life. These to me are internal. My body often lusts after food as proven by my vast warehouse of potential muscle. When a friend comes by with a really super nice super sporty car, one that I know I would love to have but never will I feel a twinge of envy. When I see a horribly disfigured person I catch myself backing away from them some may describe it as recoiling in shock or horror. But in any case I would think that show less than perfect love which is sin. All of these things should be gone if I am a new creation and freed from sin which would be the only way to live in sinless perfection before God. Thoughts????? I know I addressed Tim but I would like to hear others. I am really interested in New Testament scripture that support either side of this discussion. |
||||||
2 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228618 | ||
Greetings Ed! I'll have to make this quick as I am missing out on valuable (and rare) sleep. :-) Let me answer the main thrust of your post with a couple of questions? 1) If John meant that Christians will keep on sinning as a normative event in their lives, why did he say: 1Jn 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. Or, 1Jn 3:8-9 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. (9) No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 2) If Paul meant by Romans 7 that Christians cannot help but sin, why did he write: Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? (2) By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or, Rom 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- Or, Rom 8:8-9 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. (9) You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. My point is this: We can base our beliefs on our experience or on what God's word says. It doesn't matter how many times I sin, if God's word says that I don't have to, then it is true. :-) Since the old man is dead, I don't believe that is the source of temptation. James 1:13-15 describes the process of temptation and sin. We are tempted when we put ourselves in positions that we should not be in. The devil doesn't make us do it. We choose to do it. Scripture gives us the promise that if we walk in the Spirit, we won't sin. I've got to go to bed now! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
3 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228621 | ||
"Scripture gives us the promise that if we walk in the Spirit, we won't sin." I totally agree but I guess my question is can mortal man walk in constantly in the spirit in this fallen world? I don't think any passage Romans 7 or 1 John 1:8 gives the Christian a blank check to sin. But I think Paul in chapter 7 admits that no matter how hard he tries there are times he does slip. I guess my real thinking on the matter is this. After salvation I don't think our life in regard to sin will effect where we spend eternity. I believe that will be determined by our heart. If we in our hearts truly love God and love our neighbors any sins after salvation will not effect our eternal destination. We are to live as sinlessly as possible but sin itself will not determine our eternity but rather our eternity will be decided by the condition of our hearts. To some this will be sinless perfection if possible to others it will be making mistakes, stumbling and falling and getting back up. Again this is no blank check to sin. We are admonished to obey. Jesus said if you love me you will obey me John 14:15. I think this is what scripture means when it says we are dead to sin. Not that we will never sin again but that sin is no longer the determiner of our eternity. Does that make any sense? |
||||||
4 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228635 | ||
Greetings Ed! I have a book in my library that I would recommend for this topic. It is called: Five Views of Sanctification It goes into five different views, along with the rebuttals by the other views. It will give you a wealth of information. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||