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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | brother paul | 178578 | ||
Dear Mark, Thank you for your reply, may I suggest that your study includes Ezekiel 23:47 where the word 'dispatch' is translated from 'Bara', to create or cut with a sword, to separate? Another aspect of these three Hebrew verbs, 'Bara, Asah and Yatszar' is that they all refer to the modification of something that already exsits, none refer to origination. I struggle to understand, nothing is written in stone. If I come across as opinionated or dogmatic, I apologize. I feel there is something in what the Lord is trying to show me so I bring it before my brothers for their comments. This I know is on the edge, but I am only seeking Him. What is 'sin'? The transgression of His laws, but Jesus has removed the curse of the law. He died not for our sins but THE SIN of man, the catagory of sin. You can no longer be fined for speeding if the speed limit is removed. A Christian would of course drive carefully because he has the law written in his heart and becomes the fulfillment of the law. God's purpose is to form us in His image, therefore He has His laws, God's laws, which are His before He gave them to us. No one forces Him to keep His own law, He does it because they are right. If we are to be formed in His image then no one else should force us to keep the law, and when our law agrees with His laws we become the fulfillment of them. Until Christ removed the penality of breaking God's law we could not become like Him. This does not free us to be irresponsible, it is the reverse. While I think I am saving my life by keeping certain rules I cannot show the selfless agape love of God, it becomes corrupted. When I said He uses what legalistic orthodoxy calls 'sin', it is a part of our spiritual education. If I contravene the principles there is a price to be paid, but that in itself has contributed to my development, therefore was it 'wrong'? 'For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.' (Hebrews 12:6) We have to fast from the tree of knowledge of good and evil if we want to be in His presence. Matt 13:28-30, He does not want us to go weeding out the tares from amond the good seed, because we do not know how His crop matures. A lesson in the nonjudgmentalism of Christ. The only people Jesus judged were the judgers. There were some other verses I wanted to share but I will have to come back, it is now 1:50 a.m. in the UK, speak again. Yours and His Paul |
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2 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | mark d seyler | 178603 | ||
Hi Paul, As I am sure you already know, Hebrew is a very conceptual language in that its letters are pictorial, and as such, relies more on context than many other languages to understand the correct meaning. I myself rely heavily upon the Hebrew scholars, as my grasp of Hebrew is extremely limited, but this I know - the Bible is consistant throughout, and what is true in clear passages is equally true in difficult passages. You have stated that "Jesus died not for our sins but for THE SIN of man." (sic) The Bible says in 1 Cor 15:3 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;" this is specific, "our", yours and mine, "sins", indefinite plural, all of each of our sins. You wrote, "You can no longer be fined for speeding if the speed limit is removed." Jesus said, (Matthew 5:17-19) "Do not think that I came to annul the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill. Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Law until all comes to pass. Therefore, whoever relaxes one of these commandments, the least, and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven." Christ did not remove the penalty for breaking God's law, He paid it for us. There is a huge difference. We can become God's children because we died in Christ. Death is the penalty of sin, so we had to die. It's our blessing that we are able to die in His death, so that the curse was upon Him and not on us. Sin is by definition what is not of God. Sin, "hamartia", is to miss the target. "For all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory." Count me among the "legalistic orthodoxy" that calls sin sin. And sin does not help us. Sin kills. Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | brother paul | 178628 | ||
Dear Mark, Yes, Hebrew interpretation is subjective. This opens yet another subject of how God honours our choice. He first honours our choice and sets an example of how we should honour His choice. Is there a difference between obedience to the law and the fulfillment of it? If not the Christians would still be sacrificing animals. What is that difference? I did not preclude the penality of missing His principles, 'there is a penality to be paid.' That is not in question, but how does it all work. What is the understanding? Yes 'sin' is missing the mark. When we miss with the first shot it helps to correct the next. Exactly my point, the sinner has gained vital imformation to help him hit the target. He has progressed, it was part of his spiritual development. Was it 'wrong'? Where you seem to be is where I was, probably more so, to my determiment, it leaves so many unanswered scriptural questions. We have now drifted far from the precept of the original thought. In respect for this forum, having prayed and sought of Him, I feel that it is best to reopen the subject with new threads that bring the debate to a more directed conclusion. We have a mixture of answers, notes and questions which have lost their centre. Do you agree? Your and His Paul |
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4 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | mark d seyler | 178630 | ||
Hi Paul, As far as I can tell from reading the Bible, sin is death, and sin is what Jesus died to save us from. Sin is not part of the path to knowing God. I do not consider the line of thinking which you are presenting to resemble any true Biblical concept, and in fact, seems to directly fly in the face of much that is written. The sinner has not "gained vital information", the sinner is dead. Unless Jesus saves that sinner, the sinner remains dead. When Jesus saves a sinner, He tells them, "leave your sin, and do not return to it. Go and sin no more." Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | brother paul | 178637 | ||
Dear Mark, Are we not all sinners? I am the greatest, like the apostle Paul, and sin brings death. But to die is gain. (Phill 1:21) In death is the resurrection, indeed we have to be dead to ourselves before we can be resurrested. Jesus came to teach us how to die, death to self. We die daily. The process of God. Yes, 'sin no more', but that 'sin' can be offending the 'least of these. my brothers'. and that 'sin' can be anything that would offend the most delicate of misguided conscience. This enters an area outside of law, we are now talking about their individual 'rights and wrongs'. the concept goes higher. It no longer rests on rules but love and understanding. This is the love of Christ, it goes deeper than orthodox legalism, it is now talking about love. This is empathy. coming to where a person is, like the good samaritan who met the man where he was. Not like the preists who passed by, because they walked in judgment and legalism. it is not that simple, I would love the body of Christ to start searching, raise the questions that the Holy Spirit might bring in us into all truth. Yours and His Paul |
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6 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | mark d seyler | 178669 | ||
Hi Paul, Rather than just give us your own claims, please share with us those Scriptures that teach these things. I don't beleive they exist. The Bible says: Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, Eph 2:2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Eph 2:3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), You were dead, but God has made you alive. You say that in death is the resurrection, yes that's true, but only for the redeemed. Those who have not been redeemed, who are still facing the result of their sin, are lost, there is no resurrection for them, only eternal death. Sin is not to be tolerated, condoned, looked on as good, or any such thing. The least sin you can imagine was sufficiant to separate you, or me, from God forever. But He died to pay for it, so that we might live. I will never waver from that truth. Love in Christ, Mark |
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7 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | DocTrinsograce | 178672 | ||
Amen... well said, Brother Mark. Thank you! A solidly, Scripturally grounded understanding of Hamartiology is as important as a solidly, Scripturally grounded understanding of Soteriology. By God's grace we will, indeed, stand firm on these truths without wavering. |
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