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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | jlhetrick | 178344 | ||
Dear brother Paul, I'm thinking that the focus may be somewhat misdirected. There is no importance that I can see in Judas the man regarding the betrayal of Christ. Each one was created for a purpose, yet God depends on none to accomplish His plan. The story of the betrayal speaks of Satan entering Judas, so, by your line of reasoning here, Satan is an essential part of God's plan. By essential, I'm understanding you to say that the essential person is necessary and the plan is dependent on that person. If I am understanding you, your argument seems to be in opposition to the doctrine of God's sovereignty. Another way to think of this would be to personalize it; so I will do that. God created me for a purpose. Because I have been saved by His grace through faith in Jesus Christ, I am convinced that my prupose is included in His plan. With that said, have there been times when God has intended something for me to do and I have not followed through with it. I tell you there has been on more than one occassion I'm sure and can look back and point to some of them specifically (but I won't here :) So I failed to fulfill my purpose on that and probably several different accounts. Did my failure hinder God's plan? To put this on a smaller playing field (so to speak) let's consider God's plan to save person A. God is drawing person A to Himself and tasks me with witnessing to person A. I fail to obey God even when the call to do so is strong in my spirit (and of course I rationalize it all day long). Does person A die and go to Hell? Interested to read your response, God bless, Jeff |
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2 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | brother paul | 178394 | ||
Dear Jeff, Thank you - I do appreciate your considered responses and it helps to crystalize my thoughts. You personalized your argument illustrated my point. If God's plan is to form us in His image, then when you felt you had missed Him and were convicted in your heart, had He progressed the formation of Him you? Although you felt failure, He had progressed His purpose, Therefore was it 'wrong'? The way God convicts us of sin (John 16:8) is the way He deals with the world, His ways do not change. Therefore sin becomes a tool of God and if we see it in ourselves we must allow others the same grace. It is the Holy Spirit who convicts us of sin, and here is the important question. We must individually be convicted of sin. He writes the law in our hearts, it is a personal revelation, like God. We understand the bible as an explanation of God's law, they where His before He gave them to us. To be formed in His image we must, like Him, we must agree with His laws because we want to, not because we have to. Until Christ removes the penalty of the law it was not possible to be formed in His image. No one makes God keep His own laws, it is a personal decision. We must come to that place where it is our decision to agree with His law. To bring us to this understanding we go through a process of sin which is His plan. Therefore the fall and redemption of mankind is the process, not the frustration of God's plan. Yours and His in Him Paul |
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3 | verse explains nonChrist knowing savior | 2 Cor 5:15 | jlhetrick | 178406 | ||
Dear brother Paul, Thanks for the response. But I'm left feeling like there has been a change of subject here. I appreciate your thoughtfulness in what you write. Allow me to express my own understanding and beliefs regarding what you have written. To begin with, the personalized response in my last post was not to address the work the Holy Spirit is doing in me as an individual. I agree that based on the fact that I feel convicted of my sins I can be reassured that the Holy Spirit is in fact living in me. Not to side-step the issue; this was not the focus of my response. I was speaking to the larger plan that God has and my part in it. Conviction does not always lead to immediate repentance, even in believers. My point was that God's plan (in the case of my illustration) to save an individual does not depend on my cooperation. If He chooses to save person A, and affords me the opportunity to be involved with that and be blessed as a result; my not being obedient (as in not witnessing to person A) will not prevent or even delay God's saving that person. Moving on to other comments in your current post. You wrote: "If God's plan is to form us in His image, then when you felt you had missed Him and were convicted in your heart, had He progressed the formation of Him you? Although you felt failure, He had progressed His purpose, Therefore was it 'wrong'?" The simple answer here is, YES, it was wrong. Disobedience to the Lord is always wrong; there's no justifying it. I believe we agree though that His mercy and His grace is sufficient to overcome our failures and He is able to bless us continually (Rom 8:29) You wrote: "We understand the bible as an explanation of God's law, they where His before He gave them to us. To be formed in His image we must, like Him, we must agree with His laws because we want to, not because we have to." We have no disagreement up to this point, however, there is much more involved. The Bible does explain God's law and His character. But what the Bible says to us about God goes much further. It is His mercy and His grace that is the message to be grasped; that is the message of salvation. That in spite of our inability to keep those laws, His mercy witholds what we rightly deserve and His grace gives to us what we can never achieve on our own. What an awesome, overwhelming testimony to who God really is wouldn't you agree. We agree that as Christians we must come to a place where we choose to obey God; but we are never to forget that it is only by His grace that we are able to do so. Finally, you wrote: "To bring us to this understanding we go through a process of sin which is His plan. Therefore the fall and redemption of mankind is the process, not the frustration of God's plan." I'm not sure I'm grasping your theology in that statement so I will be brief with my response. My understanding and belief is this. God never intends or PLANS for any man to sin. Rather God works His plan perfectly with full knowledge that we will sin, and in spite of us when we do, thus, my original point. God's plan is accomplished in accordance with His perfect will. It never depends on Jeff Hetrick in Las Cruces, New Mexico. With that said, I believe it is important to point out that God did not orchestrate the fall (though he knew it before the creation of the world). Knowing this, He did orchestrate a great, miraculous plan of redemption; this too before the creation of the world. He testified to that in Genisis (see 3:15ff). Thank you brother for the continued consideration. God Bless, Jeff |
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