Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | JCrichton | 125559 | ||
Hi, Tim Moran! I understand your views! I think that part of the problem is that we, Christians, tend to merge both God’s Way and the world’s ways. We view obedience as subjecting ourselves not to the Will of God but the whims of the world. Notice how quickly we accept any philosophy that the world endorses; yet, when it comes to the Bible we demand an exact format that would present us with just the right wording that we are willing to digest? Jesus commands that we love one another and that we become one--so we create thousands of denominations claiming to be serving Jesus in absolute completeness in each one of those congregations! We run the gambit from one extreme to another, and still we keep reinventing the Church! It all comes down to obedience! We are ready to obey God, but only in our terms! So we keep searching the Scriptures for supporting evidence that “we” are correct. And while we battle each other for a piece of Heaven, we keep running away from the Truth and embracing anything that supports our personal theology. I have witnessed these such arguments in very many places both on and off cyberspace. I’ve noticed that sometimes the differences between one person/group and another are rooted in semantics or menial matters that are inconsequential to salvation. God Bless! Angel |
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2 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Morant61 | 125573 | ||
Greetings Angel! You wrote: "So we keep searching the Scriptures for supporting evidence that “we” are correct." I can't speak for anyone else, but I search Scripture that I might know exactly what it is that God wants me to do. Words are containers holding meaning. If I misunderstand a word, I don't really understand the truth behind that word. If I then try to 'obey' my misconception of the word's meaning, am I really obeying God? :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | JCrichton | 125615 | ||
"If I then try to 'obey' my misconception of the word's meaning, am I really obeying God?" Hi, Tim Moran! You are so correct! That is why we have such a grandiouse divergence of Christian denomenations... each person that seeks to find "his/her" truth breaks away from the next person/group that does not agree/accept that "truth!" Christ did not say that the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, would guide us to many truths, He said that He would guide us to the complete Truth!: ie: just recently I had a visit from an evangelist who offered to help me study so that I can discover the truth about Christ's Chruch--which had been in some sort of limbo for over a thousand years after the death of the Apostles... He and his congregation base their belief on one particular Scriptural passage: "...another fold..." Their founder searched Scripture support in order to give credance to his doctrinal belief... he made history! "So we keep searching the Scriptures for supporting evidence that “we” are correct." This is a generic term which I use to convey the whole of a group as society, Americans, Christians... in no way am I attempting to speak for others nor do I insinuate that that is the mind set of all believers! You are right, understanding the meaning of words give a more defined shape to what they represent... but we must also be cautious not to rely solely on the values of words... there are those that will go to their graves refusing to accept Jesus as God! They too base their fallicious belief on the exactness of some words in Scripture! I think that when we humbly come to God, asking for His Holy Spirit to guide us, even those Scripture passages that seem obscure become as bright as sun light! God Bless! Angel |
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4 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Morant61 | 125622 | ||
Greetings Angel! But, when two people disagee, how is a decision reached about who is correct? Scripture has to be the final arbritrator! When there is a disagreement, it is not because someone sought the truth of Scripture, but because someone has ignored the truth of Scripture. :-) For instance, you mentioned the Deity of Christ. John 1:1 is quite clear about this, but those who choose not to accept it, ignore the truth of Scripture. The problem is not that they were seeking the truth, but that they ignored it. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Emmaus | 125624 | ||
Tim, "But, when two people disagee, how is a decision reached about who is correct? Scripture has to be the final arbritrator!" Au contraire my friend. In many matters, but especially if the dispute is when the parties are in disagreement over the very same scripture. Scripture itself says: "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven (Matt 18:17-18) Application in the practice of the Church: "Now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food. So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables. "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. "But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word." The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch. And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them. The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith. (Acts 6:1-7) Granted the Church must use the Scripture a primary point of reference in making itrs decision, but scripture itself cannot render a decision on a dispute about itself or many other contemporary issue which it does not address directly but in which it may be interpreted, extrapolated and applied in the rendering a decison resolving a dispute. Why do people go to Pastors for counselling instead of just going to the Bible itself? Why do Churches have Church courts? Because to resolve disputes an authoritative interpretation of scripture must be made, especially in case where the dispute is about the interpretation and application of scripture in a concrete setting. "For instance, you mentioned the Deity of Christ. John 1:1 is quite clear about this, but those who choose not to accept it, ignore the truth of Scripture. The problem is not that they were seeking the truth, but that they ignored it." (Tim) The Church had the early Councils that established the Nicean Creed to resolve exacly the issue you reference above. The Church rendered the final authoritative interpretation of the Scripture in dispute. The Church is the custodian and authoritative interpreter of Sacred Scripture and it is the final arbiter while referencing but also interpreting Scripture. Emmaus |
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6 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Morant61 | 125637 | ||
Greetings Emmaus! As you are well aware my friend, our tradition believes in the priesthood of believers. I don't need a council to tell me that Scripture says Jesus is God - Scripture itself tells me that! :-) I'm glad that I am in agreement with them, but Scripture is my final authority - not a council. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | EdB | 125643 | ||
Tim Not to pile on or anything like that but you seem to make it cut and dried yet we know experts have hashed and rehashed various Bible passages for centuries. Also I don't think all 3,000 plus denominations are refusing to see the truth, they have formulated the truth as they have seen it. If every passage in scripture was crystal clear and it was easy to understand all the ramifications, implications and know all the dependencies then I would agree you would be right most individuals could alone make their reading of Scriptures their final authority. Unfortunately neither you nor I can do that alone, there are passages we have read and reread that for one reason has never jumped out at us, however another person reading them receives an understanding of them but more importantly understanding of another passage. Case in point Jesus on the cross crying out my Father My father why have you forsaken me. Matthew 24:46 how many would know that he was repeating the opening verse of Psalm 22:1? A Psalm that to me describes the crucifixion in stunning detail and exactness and I believe Jesus quoted to recall to the hearers around him. I feel the biggest problem in the church today is people are taking the position I can read the Bible and decide for myself what it means. That simply can’t be done by the average person in an average amount of time. You know yourself there are passages that unless you have at least an elementary understanding of Greek or Hebrew the passage can be taken in a entirely different understanding. I feel like many others that Sola Scriptura is the totally correct idea but because of time, training, conditioning, prejudices, environment, and ability we need theologians to clarify what Scripture is really saying. How many times have you combated right here on this forum people with cultist ideas that had scripture after scripture to support their idea? Yet using those same scriptures with the expertise of a theologian you and others were able combat their cultist ways. I to this day think the reformation did a big disservice to Christianity not in it’s attempt to reform the Catholic church but in its propagation of the idea that every one should decide for themselves what the scripture says. I still believe there is wisdom in the council of men. I think one of the most major problems in Christianity is the 3,000 plus denominations and basically 3000 ways to achieve a Christian walk. I’m of the opinion that church with all it problems and all its human failings did well in the first 1500 years however instead of maturing into a ‘meat’ eating Christian entity it became a victim of multiple personalities dividing into many weak ‘milk’ drinking entities. Look at the day, we have people proclaiming their Christianity from the roof tops yet they support abortion, drunkenness, drugs, homosexuality, incest, divorce, and even suicide. I heard a women on Christian Radio say Paul’s epistles were never meant to be a blueprint for the church to follow. That Paul was dealing with crisis in critical timing situations and making snap decisions. His letters don’t reflect deep thinking but rather shallow quick fixes. Therefore we should take them not as blueprints but indicators of what problems the church may face and develop well thought out answers to today’s pressing questions. Thanks but no thanks if that is what we are going to call sola scriptura today and the sad part is some do. EdB |
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8 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Morant61 | 125652 | ||
Greetings EdB! With a few exceptions, I believe that Scripture is that cut and dried. :-) Our problems results when: 1) We ignore what Scripture clearly says. 2) We go beyond what Scripture actually says. Further, I think that the differences between denominations are usually overstated. For the most part, the major denominations agree on the essentials of the faith. The real differences result from denominations ignoring what Scripture actually says. Look at the denominations today discussing ordaining homosexuals! What does Scripture say? The problems isn't that they look at Scripture and simply 'interpret' it differently than I do! The problem is that they are totally ignoring what Scripture says. I'm not denying the wisdom of checking yourself against other believers. But, I don't 'need' anyone to teach me truth. Scripture is sufficent for that! :-) I accepted Christ when I was six. I came from a non-Christian family. When I finally got to college, I already knew all the theology that they taught me. The only difference was that I didn't know all the fancy labels! ;-) Where did I learn it? The Bible! Well, I have to run my friend! Keep me in your prayers these next couple of weeks. Our pastor is on vaction for three weeks, so I am filling the pulpit for all services. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | EdB | 125660 | ||
Tim I really don't see denominations ignoring what scripture says. I see them reading a different interpretation into it. Take the speaking in tongues. The real point of contention is "what is when the perfect comes" some say it is the closing of the cannon, others say Jesus. Can you definitely prove which it is? I think not. Makes a major difference in theology though. There are hundreds of different understandings or interpretations based on honest reading of the scripture, many can be seen viewing the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. Take the for example Jesus saying Peter your the rock and upon this rock I will build my church. There are all kinds of explanations, from using word plays in the native tongue to actual occurrences of the early church. Again depending on your reading can create a wide difference in theology. These differences weren’t brought up by ignorant men looking for something to be different. These differences are held by men and women that have given years upon years of honest study to the subject and have decided the evidence as they see proves the their interpretation. Take Jack Hayford a brilliant Pentecostal theologian and bring together with John MacArthur an equally brilliant non Pentecostal theologian and discuss such issues as the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, women in the church, divorce, pastorial divorce, security of believer. I think when you heard both men you will see that scripture is not as cut and dried as you claim. I believe I’m safe in saying these are major issues of faith. The take either one of these men and compare their stand on these issues with the excellent catechism of the Catholic church and you will find yet other views. Are these examples all blind to the truth is perhaps the truth not as crystal clear as you claim it to be? EdB |
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10 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Morant61 | 125664 | ||
Greetings EdB! I would respectfully disagree my friend. Scripture can be taken out of context, ignored, or misunderstood at times. But, it is clear! On almost every example you cited, there are differing opinions, but I would argue that one side or the other ignores many Scriptures that do not agree with their view. It is not that Scripture is unclear. It is that we don't want to hear what it has to say. To say otherwise is to say that the words of Scripture have no meaning - that it can mean one thing to one person and another thing to another person. If this were the case, why have Scripture at all. Everyone could simply believe whatever they wanted. :-) I also mentioned that one of our problems is that we often go beyond what Scripture says. You used the example of when the 'perfect' has come. Scripture never identifies what the 'perfect' is, so we are speculating when we try to guess. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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11 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | EdB | 125670 | ||
Tim My point exactly that is why I say it is so important to have a many people in the process that one a point I may over look you won't and vice versa. We see it all the time here on the forum people coming from nearly every angle. That would not happen if we had one and one group interpretating scripture and making a decision. EdB |
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