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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What does Scripture mean by no works? | John 3:5 | flinkywood | 111415 | ||
Tim, I've not had time to get to your question. I hope to do so by Wednesday. I haven't drawn any firm conclusion on the matter of baptism and its relation to salvation. There are usages in the NT (Titus 3.5, for ex.) which indicate that baptism may simply be emblematic of a regeneration, a "washing" that has already taken place when we first repent and believe, in essence a ritual more cermonial than effectual (the salvation of the thief on the cross is a commonly cited case in point). On the other hand, I'm equally unconviced that baptism is optional as Jesus Christ Himself performed it on others and also linked it to salvation in Mark 16.16. Baptism may not be categorically mandatory (thief on the cross), but obligatory when we are able to receive it. I think we can agree that Faith itself is a work in progress (Rom 1.17), so we must therefore also perform (work) those things which bring about the "obedience of faith". (Rom 1.5; 16.26). In order to reconcile these opposing postions, the debate must lead to apparently irreconcileable differences between the Roman Catholic and Protestant views of salvation. I'm not sure, however, that these are so far apart as they are made out to be: the Holy Sprit is working mightily in in both camps, as far as I can tell. It would help me a lot if you could tell me how you interpret these verses: "...when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," (1Pe 3:20-21) Do you think Peter is referring here specifically to physical baptism, or to a Baptism of the Holy Spirit? Colin |
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2 | What does Scripture mean by no works? | John 3:5 | Morant61 | 111556 | ||
Greetings Colin! For my view on the 1 Peter passage, check out post 73108. As far as your comments about baptism being 'optional' or not, I don't believe baptism is optional. It is commanded. However, obedience to this command does not save. Just as Christians are commanded to do many things in Scripture, but these 'things' do not save us. I would also add that the Greek phrase 'obedience of faith' would simply refer to obedience which springs from faith. The obedience does not produce the faith; rather, the obedience springs from the faith (which is consistent with Eph. 2:8-10). Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | What does Scripture mean by no works? | John 3:5 | flinkywood | 113209 | ||
Tim, thanks for replying here. I've been studying this question of obedience and faith for about the last 4 months, so I look forward to your always excellent comments. The cross crushes all question that salvation can be earned by our behavior. Salvation is a gift of God received through faith in Jesus Christ (Rom 3.21-26), His eternal, uncreated Son only (Acts 4.12). On this point we must be in agreement. I don’t believe, however, that once we have believed in “Him whom He has sent” (John 6.29) and are adopted into the family of God (Rom 8.15) that we have the categorical guarantee of heaven apart from our “works” (James 2), works being those deeds we do in loving faith according to His will and which demonstrate and perfect our faith and draw us closer to our Father. Faith is as faith does, as Abraham’s life exemplifies (James 2.21). Notice here how James deliberately inverts the time between the offering of Isaac, when he received the promise (James 2.21 - Gen 22), and the time his faith was reckoned to him as righteousness (James 2:23 – Genesis 17). Abraham was far more mature in former instance than the latter; his faith had increased by his works. Again, it is not works that save, but faith at work. Faith justifies, not instantaneously, but progressively, which is Paul’s meaning in Phil 2.12, and Peter’s (1 Peter 1.6-9), and James’ in chapter 2. Conversely to your point viz. Eph 2:8-10, faith (grace is also received in v.8), because it comes to us from God, not from ourselves (lest anyone should boast), saves not in and of itself (it isn’t from us, but from God, after all), but through our obedience to that gift of faith. Our initial obedience justifies us in the way our subsequent obedience justifies us (Abraham). That is why Paul links obedience to faith in Romans 1:5 and 16:26. Not by faith alone, but through the obedience of faith. That is not to say we are obliged to do X or Y in order to earn salvation, rather that Godly doing will be our saving desire, which is the difference between the letter of the law and the sprit of the law. I also have come to see the background of Romans not to be a Roman court of law, but the God’s covenant family of the Torah. It is far less a Judge’s bench than a Father’s family table, far less our acquittal than our adoption as children, children who may also go prodigal and lose our Father’s blessing, though He will move heaven and earth to bring us back. I’ve been listening to an excellent Study on Romans by Scott Hahn—a Catholic, of all things—and have a particular tape in mind for you. If you’d like, I’ll send it to you. Colin. |
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