Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 110267 | ||
Huron, Since this ground or should I say water has been worked over so many times I will make only this one post on the subject. CDBJ has presented the alternative posiiton. The syntax of the Greek (according to those who hold to baptism here) indicates Jesus is speaking of one spiritual birth by water and the Spirit working in and through the water, not two seperate events. Consider the close link between water and the sSpirit elsewhwere in John's writing (John 7:38-39; 1 John 5:8) and most explicitly in John 1:3 when the Spirit decends on Jesus at the very moment He is baptized in the waters of the Jordan. Immediately after the episode in John 3:5, Jesus and His deiciples begin a ministry of baptism (John 3:22). This close connection between water and the Spirit seen sacramentally in Baptism is also seen in Acts 2:38; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 3:21. In the Old Testament we seen the depiction of water being poured out upon the Israelites to wash away their iniquities and renew their hearts in Isaiah 44:3 and Ezekiel 36:25-36 The close association between water, the Spirit and new creation starts in Genesis 1:2. Suffice it to say that those who hold to batptismal regeneration have a sacramental persepective. i.e., God's works in creation through the elements of His creation, but it is God working. The Incarnation of Jesus is the ultimate example of this.Can you speparate Jesus the spiritual second Person of the Trinity from the incarnated or enfleshed Jesus in His saving work on the cross? Could God have saved without the reality of the physical passion of Jesus? Yes, but God did not choose to do so, He chose to work in and through the flesh. They do not understand how others who disagree on baptism can explain away the first 1500 years of Christian history which, as they read Scripture and early Christian wrtings, appears to have held to this position exclusively. How one views various passages is often determined by what perspective one brings to the passage due to the teaching they received on the subject. It is another thing altogether to look into the history and backgroung of how that perspective was developed, where it came from, when it was first taught and why. I will leave that to you. http://www.catholic.com/library/Born_Again_in_Baptism.asp http://www.catholic.com/library/Baptismal_Grace.asp http://www.catholic.com/library/Necessity_of_Baptism.asp Emmaus |
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2 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Searcher56 | 110319 | ||
Scripture ... John 3:5-8 - Titus 3:5 .......... Titus 3:5 about one's sins are washed away, as well as other Scripture (Psa 51:2, 1 Cor 6:11, Eph 5:26, Heb 10:22). In John 3:5 "water" is not referring to the not-yet-existent ritual of Christian baptism. The entire passage is the activity of the Holy Spirit in contrast to the flesh, it would be strange to shift to the ritual. In verse 8, "born of the Spirit" (no mention of water this time) is likened to the wind blowing. Is being born of the Spirit and being born by the wind are not two different things? Then why think being "born of water" and being "born of the Spirit" are different? |
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3 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | mitelt | 111325 | ||
Searcher56, "not-yet-existent"? Wasn't John baptizing with water? Wasn't Jesus baptized with water? John 3:5 may indeed be referring to the "activity of the Holy Spirit in contrast to the flesh", but baptism did exist at this point in time, since Christ himself had been baptized. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus instructs the eleven to teach all the nations and to baptize them. What form of baptize would the eleven know about at this time other than water baptism? Had they been baptized with the Holy Spirit at this point? Christ said, “He who believes AND is baptized will be saved…” Mark 16:16 (NKJV) |
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