Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Huron | 110297 | ||
Emmaus, I was hoping that you would answer! While I don't always agree with your viewpoint, I do enjoy taking a look at the issues from your point of view. I guess to understand a topic it's best to consider all points of view. 1 John 5:8 (the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.) is a scripture I'm not super familiar with so I'm going to chew on it for a while. Regards, Huron |
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2 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Searcher56 | 110316 | ||
Huron, keep in mind that the Catholics believe baptism is required for salvation. | ||||||
3 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 111238 | ||
Searcher, "Huron, keep in mind that the Catholics believe baptism is required for salvation." Well, yes and no. The Catholic position is a little more subtle than most people think. As is often the case it takes a both/and position, rather than an either/or position, and depending on the indivisual circumstances may agree with one or the other of the either/or positions held by the various members of the forum. And this ties into the whole conmcept of justification/sanctification as a continuum or ongoing process. So we see this teaching. "1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation (John 3:5)(arguments that this verse does not refer to the sacrament of baptism notwithstanding). He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. ... 1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament. 1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament. 1247 Since the beginning of the Church, adult Baptism is the common practice where the proclamation of the Gospel is still new. The catechumenate (preparation for Baptism) therefore occupies an important place. This initiation into Christian faith and life should dispose the catechumen to receive the gift of God in Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist. 1248 The catechumenate, or formation of catechumens, aims at bringing their conversion and faith to maturity, in response to the divine initiative and in union with an ecclesial community. The catechumenate is to be "a formation in the whole Christian life . . . during which the disciples will be joined to Christ their teacher. The catechumens should be properly initiated into the mystery of salvation and the practice of the evangelical virtues, and they should be introduced into the life of faith, liturgy, and charity of the People of God by successive sacred rites." 1249 Catechumens "are already joined to the Church, they are already of the household of Christ, and are quite frequently already living a life of faith, hope, and charity." "With love and solicitude mother Church already embraces them as her own." The Catechism of the Catholic Church You may have noticed I usually avoid most of these closed cage matches, although I may make a post or two on occassion. Emmaus |
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4 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | flinkywood | 111246 | ||
Steve, this is a great post. 1257-59 are especially interesting against the harsh black vs. white character of the baptism debate between Catholics and Protestants. From the perspective of your post Jesus' statement to thief on the cross implies that our Lord saw the heart of the man, that it was true. Could we say that baptism is a provisionally necessary element for salvation? Colin |
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5 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 111254 | ||
Colin, Necessary for those who can be baptised, since Jesus commissioned his followers to preach the Gospel, "and make disiples of all antions, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." Matthew 27:19-20. It would seem to be to be the first expression of "the obedience of (saving) faith." (Romans 1:5) That is why the Church even at the Council of Trent said that "faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and root of all justification without which it is imossible to please God." That is why in scripture faith and baptism are already linked except in situation where baptism is impossible such as the thief on the cross or the household of Cornelius, which would have been denied baptism until God sent Peter his vision in Acts 10-11 and made it clear that Gentiles who had received the faith could and in fact must be baptised. Emmaus |
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6 | Where does it say "MUST be baptised" | John 3:5 | Searcher56 | 111261 | ||
Emmaus, Where does it say "MUST be baptised" ... |
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7 | Where does it say "MUST be baptised" | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 111265 | ||
Searcher, As I said reread my previous posts. Emmaus |
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8 | Where does it say "MUST be baptised" | John 3:5 | Searcher56 | 111297 | ||
I do not see Scripture say we "MUST be baptised" to be saved | ||||||