Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 110267 | ||
Huron, Since this ground or should I say water has been worked over so many times I will make only this one post on the subject. CDBJ has presented the alternative posiiton. The syntax of the Greek (according to those who hold to baptism here) indicates Jesus is speaking of one spiritual birth by water and the Spirit working in and through the water, not two seperate events. Consider the close link between water and the sSpirit elsewhwere in John's writing (John 7:38-39; 1 John 5:8) and most explicitly in John 1:3 when the Spirit decends on Jesus at the very moment He is baptized in the waters of the Jordan. Immediately after the episode in John 3:5, Jesus and His deiciples begin a ministry of baptism (John 3:22). This close connection between water and the Spirit seen sacramentally in Baptism is also seen in Acts 2:38; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 3:21. In the Old Testament we seen the depiction of water being poured out upon the Israelites to wash away their iniquities and renew their hearts in Isaiah 44:3 and Ezekiel 36:25-36 The close association between water, the Spirit and new creation starts in Genesis 1:2. Suffice it to say that those who hold to batptismal regeneration have a sacramental persepective. i.e., God's works in creation through the elements of His creation, but it is God working. The Incarnation of Jesus is the ultimate example of this.Can you speparate Jesus the spiritual second Person of the Trinity from the incarnated or enfleshed Jesus in His saving work on the cross? Could God have saved without the reality of the physical passion of Jesus? Yes, but God did not choose to do so, He chose to work in and through the flesh. They do not understand how others who disagree on baptism can explain away the first 1500 years of Christian history which, as they read Scripture and early Christian wrtings, appears to have held to this position exclusively. How one views various passages is often determined by what perspective one brings to the passage due to the teaching they received on the subject. It is another thing altogether to look into the history and backgroung of how that perspective was developed, where it came from, when it was first taught and why. I will leave that to you. http://www.catholic.com/library/Born_Again_in_Baptism.asp http://www.catholic.com/library/Baptismal_Grace.asp http://www.catholic.com/library/Necessity_of_Baptism.asp Emmaus |
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2 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Huron | 110297 | ||
Emmaus, I was hoping that you would answer! While I don't always agree with your viewpoint, I do enjoy taking a look at the issues from your point of view. I guess to understand a topic it's best to consider all points of view. 1 John 5:8 (the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.) is a scripture I'm not super familiar with so I'm going to chew on it for a while. Regards, Huron |
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3 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Mommapbs | 110303 | ||
Greetings Huron, I'd like to offer another perspctive on 1 John 5:8. Since Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith, how can baptism "save?" If it is ALL from Him, then the Spirit, the water and the blood must be too. "But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out." John 19: 34 Could this be the "water" that we have most usually associated with baptism? Chew on this too. Blessings, mommapbs |
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