Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Morant61 | 37756 | ||
Greetings Greg! In Mt. 19:21, the conditional clause starts with 'if', but the command is not preceded by 'if'. The command 'follow' me is the Present, Active, Imperative, 2nd, Singular of 'akoloutheo'. The same exact word (and form) is used in Mt. 9:9, 16:24, Mk. 2:14, 8:34, 10:21, Lk. 5:27, 9:23, 9:59, 18:22, Jn. 1:43, 12:26, 21:19, 21:22. Each of these is a command spoken by Christ to individuals or groups. Some of them followed, while others did not! You said that any time Christ commanded someone directly to follow Him, they had no choice but to obey. Yet, Mt. 19:21 alone demonstrates that this is not the case. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
2 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Greg Martin | 37766 | ||
"You said that any time Christ commanded someone directly to follow Him, they had no choice but to obey" Oh, no. I proposed a viewpoint and asked a question. I never once concluded they had no choice. I said the angels and the demons and nature and the universe have no choice. I never said people have no choice. I'm actually on the free will side of this issue. I just don't have an adequate defense of my opinion. And where the Bible is concerned OPINION IS WORTHLESS. But I can't agree with your reasoning on Mt 19:21. The word may be imperative, but the context still is conditional. "ei...thelo ...hupago...kai...deuro...akoloutheo" (IF...you want...go ...AND...come ...follow) So this point is weak, and not convincing proof. The context of the sentence here is "IF YOU WILL THEN GO AND COME FOLLOW" -------------------------------- ei (i) a primary particle of conditionality; conj AV - if 242, whether 20, that 6, not tr 19, misc 3; 290 thelo (thel-o) or ethelo (eth-el-o) in certain tenses otherwise obsolete apparently strengthened from the alternate form of 138; TDNT - 3:44,318; v AV - will/would 159, will/would have 16, desire 13, desirous 3, list 3, to will 2, misc 4; 210 1) to will, have in mind, intend 1a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose 1b) to desire, to wish 1c) to love 1c1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing 1d) to take delight in, have pleasure hupago (hoop-ag-o) from 5259 and 71; TDNT - 8:504,1227; v AV - go 55, go (ones) way 17, go away 3, get thee 3, depart 2, get thee hence 1; 81 1) to lead under, bring under 2) to withdraw one's self, to go away, depart kai (kahee) apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; conj AV - and 8182, also 515, even 108, both 43, then 20, so 18, likewise 13, not tr. 354, misc 46, vr and 1; 9280 1) and, also, even, indeed, but deuro (dyoo-ro) of uncertain affinity; adv AV - come 6, come hither 2, hitherto 1) of place, 1a) hither to this place 1b) in urging and calling, here! come! 2) of time, hither to, now |
||||||
3 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Morant61 | 37771 | ||
Greetings Greg! I'm sorry if I put words in your mouth! I thought you were making the opposite point! :-) However, an imperative in a conditional clause is still an imperative. An imperative, by definition is a command. Let's use an English example. Suppose my son comes to me and says, "What do I need to do in order to earn an allowance?" I reply, "If you want an allowance, clean your room!" The 'if' speaks to my son's frame of mind, but the command is still a command. If he cleans his room, I will give him an allowance. If he doesn't clean his room, I won't give him an allowance. Mt. 19:21 is the same way. The 'if' speaks to the man's stated desire, but does not negate the command. Further, I could take the Calvinistic approach and say that 'if' here really means 'since'. Thus, the clause is affirming the reality of his desire, not making it a condition. But, I think almost all occurances of 'ei' really mean 'if' not 'since'! :-) A similar construction (conditional clause followed by a command) is found in Mt. 6:42 - "He went away a second time and prayed, ‘‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”" Should we then conclude that Jesus wasn't really commanding God's will to be done because His command was preceded by a conditional clause? Well, I've got to get to bed! I have to work tonight! :-( Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||