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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Hank | 37735 | ||
"If God Almighty chooses to call a person, that person will come!" John, has this statement you have made been shown by Scripture to be the case, always and without exception? Or must indeed there be, on the part of him who is called, a response that one might refer to as being either acceptance or rejection? Perhaps I misunderstand or misread, but it seems to me the statement you have made is a blanket one, one that permits nothing but a puppet response, which is actually no response at all, by the one who is being called. Is this the correct Reformed view? Is this what election really is? --Hank | ||||||
2 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | John Reformed | 37799 | ||
Hi Hank, I said "If God Almighty chooses to call a person, that person will come! In answer to the first part of your question: "John, has this statement you have made been shown by Scripture to be the case, always and without exception?". I say YES! The ones God Chooses to call will come. I believe your response to me would be: "Then why are not all saved upon hearing the Gospel?". Matt 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." The call goes out to all. The evangelist is to carry out the Great Commission and call all men, everywhere to repentance and to faith in Christ. Now you know and I know that unless the Holy Spirit quikens the heart of the hearer, that person will consider the preaching of the cross foolishness 1 cor 1:18. He is carnal and can neither understand or recieve spiritual things. For that very reason we pray the Holy Spirit will open the persons eyes and ears and heart. It takes a miracle for a sinner to surrender to Christ. On that basis I say there are two calls, one a outward call and a second an inward call. All recieve the The evangelists call (An outward call) but only those whom God has chosen recieve His call (An inward call) and the quikening of the Holy Spirit. When God sends the Holy Spirit to quiken the heart of a man that man is born again. His eyes are now open. He sees his sinful condition and turns to Christ the object of his love. The Spirit has taken away his heart of stone and given him a heart of flesh. The question here centers around the verb "chosen". Hank, who in this verse, do you say, are the chosen and who is the chooser? If you disagree please share your understanding of this verse with me. I'll Attempt to answer the second part of your question later. God Bless Hank, John |
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3 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | Hank | 37807 | ||
John, this dialogue is taking us right back to Calvinism. To Calvinism I've been and back to Calvinism I do not wish to go. This forum has seen more than enough of this argument; all the points have been debated over and over. I stand firm in my beliefs and you obviously do in yours. You are not going to come close to convincing me that all the points of Calvinism are the only points worthy of consideration. I should be foolish to think that I would be able to bend your mind away from the beliefs you cherish dearly. Therefore, you won't profit by further expansion on your beliefs and neither will I. For every point you make, I could make what I would consider a valid counterpoint. So perhaps could you of every point I could make. So what's the point, John, of dragging this subject over the coals yet another time? Let's just drop it and go forward to something else. Do you think that is an unreasonable gesture on my part? --Hank | ||||||
4 | Did the disciples have a choice? | John 15:16 | John Reformed | 37823 | ||
Dear Hank, Where have I mentioned Calvnism? Please brother, you must understand my motive. I am moved not by man's theology but by my love for Christ and my zeal for the Fathers glory. You may be surprised by the number of disagreements I have with the Reformers. I have been challenged by you and others regarding my interpretation of God's truth. It has driven me to try harder, dig deeper, re-examine my church's doctrines and pray that The Holy Spirit would open my eyes and ears. I have been a christian for 22 years. My views on doctrine have changed time and time again, as the Potter has been pleased to mold me. I submit to His touch alone. When I find I've been wrong it's been a joy to me! God has pressed his fingers into my clay and has made me more beautiful. It is not always a painless process and I did'nt mean to imply that it was. You and I have experienced the pain. But we have become closer as a result. The Potter's hand on our lives. Let's put our dogmas aside and approach the scripture with unbiased eyes, the both of us. I would really appreciate your answer to my question. I ask it lovingly. Brother John |
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